Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Removing Spinners

Arwyn, I use your method when mogging but another method at home. I found constantly using a lead hammer (my favourite as well) too soon left my eared spinners very battered and unsightly at the torque needed. But of course, hammers are unavoidable when mogging for weeks at a time. No room for anything else. I opted for 3 ear spinners as they provide a better grip for an adapter and can serve with a hammer as well. At home I use the breaker bar with a pre-measured extension that achieves or releases the ideal Ferrari torque and kept the splines safe indefinitely. That.cut out all but emergency roadside battering with the hammer, The spinners then lasted in decent shape. https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/spinnerremover.jpg

A little battering is cool. Indicates one uses the car.

Lorne

Well exactly, horses for courses here and we need to know exactly what type of spinner?

Well as everyone is having a go I'll give you my findings.... note they are mine but as there seems to be so many opinions, experienced findings will allow you to make your own minds up!

When I got my current car it had three eared spinners fitted. Well it did look good! By GOD they're unusable though.
Firstly you cannot adequately tighten them they are just too small to use a mallet on and after they have self tightened getting them loosened requires the help of nasa. Having had experience of both the two eared and octagonal or Euro knock off spinners I bought a set of the octagonal type to replace them and rested happy again on my informed choice.

So lots here Is talked about tightening knock off wire's. Mostly the truth is no-one can categorically tell you how tight is tight on fitting. Yes they do need to be tight enough to protect the splines, both hub and wheel. To loose and you do chance damaging the splines to both elements so you have to learn what tight feels like. Now they are as stated previously, handed so are different on the left side of the car to the right side of the car. This is to prevent them from undoing whilst driving. They are generally marked if a Morgan product but are available with no markings. Here's how you can remember which way to turn to loosen or tighten. When they are marked they show the undo direction and if you notice whatever side you are standing on you will rotate the spinner towards the front of the car and the reverse to tighten. The tool kit...... I'd only use that if caught out in the desert with no other option. The spanner... what a tool, guaranteed to help you damage the car or yourself! As for the mallet flailing about your head!....well!

So I got to thinking, How best to deal with this issue, initial tightening to prevent damage to your splines. safe method of tightening and loosening in the field and something with enough heft to loosen a self tightened wheel which for some reason don't all tighten to the same level in use. Most of all... zero use of the mallet.

Firstly I ascertained the best leverage length whereby I would know that the wheel was tight enough, meaning I could achieve this without feeling I was lifting the car! For me this was 700mm from the centre of the spinner to the end of the shaft. So I went onto Ebay and bought another euro spanner just like the one in the car, MG is the same size and also bought some aluminium box section 50mm x 15mm and 600mm long. I took the spanner and at a line drawn about 25mm from the head towards the handle buried the head in the vice and hammered the handle towards me somewhere between 5'-10'. It's not a lot. I then filed the handle to fully fit the box section tube to just shy of the head. the internal width of the alloy section was larger than the thickness of the spanner so I inserted a spacer made from 6mm plexiglass. I then marked the spanner handle for two suitable fitting points and drilled them through the spanner. Using the spanner on the outside of the box section as a template I marked the drill position and drilled through both sides. I then assembled the parts together and drilled through the spacer when all together. 6mm was the bolt size and assembled it with plate washers and nyloc nuts. I have this clipped on pins secured with R clips on the rear vertical face of the spare wheel mount so it in fact obvious when the wheel is lifted out and you can also access it from underneath at the back. This allows you to adequately tighten your wheels, loosen them under full control and not damage your car or yourself. you'll now appreciate why the angle was made to the spanner head....... it clears the wing edge without effecting the force angle of the spanner.

Finally the worst advice I/we were probably given in the old days was that you don't need to tighten the wheels hardly at all as they do it themselves, That's how to damage the splines. Were I asked at the roadside I would say tighten well not just approximate.

Lastly, I regularly loosen and retighten my hubs as this prevents an over tightening from really taking hold and If you have ever had one of these then you'll understand where I'm coming from. ( probably every 500-600 miles).

Greasing, Well you certainly need to grease the splines. I sparingly grease both the wheel and hub and have found that copper slip works the best as the copper element has a cushioning effect. Where the rear of the wheel sits against the hub, it's the ground area at the back, you need to use the merest amount of surface protection, just enough to protect against rusting. I just use regular grease here with a high melting point it can literally be described as wiped on wiped off! This is where a rotating wheel will chuck excessive grease around if you overdo things!

So my conclusion here is that this enables you to tighten the wheel adequately, To also safely remove a wheel even in difficult circumstances or situations and protect yourself when doing so! And you won't look like Andycap wacking your car to death at the roadside!

Oh, I actually like the consternation on the faces of bystanders when I wield the lead mallet .... lets me feel a connection to the intrepid automobilists of yore ... and appeases my inner Mr Toad! 🙂

K

K, I think the gen Z brigade view you as we did John Cleese battering his Austin 1100

Well, if they look up from their phone anyway!

Hi Sewin. I use the type of 3-eared spinners sold by Brands Hatch. https://morgan-kent.com/product/wire-wheel-spinner-3-ears-l-h-t/

As for precise Ferrari torque, which cured this area of my wire wheel issues, merely google that. I prefer that to simply listing it. It is certainly not anything like the constantly failing MWS recommendation of 70 ftlbs and then "allow them to self-tighten. I like MWS. If one chooses their products welland deals with them properly, their product are reasonably priced and can last and last instead of driving so many batty. Using my system described, makes them easy to remove and torque properly while eliminating damage. worth the investment.

And one can easily measure spinner torque if you go the adapter route. Merely test it with a standard 1/2 inch torque wrench. But this cannot be done with a 5-sided or eared spinner alone. No place to fit the torque wrench!. But with a breaker bar and a measured extension, you only have to do this once. By the way. I had the extension pipe hydraulically squeezed to keep it steady on the breaker bar. (An unsteady pipe produces uncertain torque).

The group must forgive me for this next, but most centre lock Morgan wire wheels have ruined splines within a short time from delivery. It is not something anyone wants to hear about. Morgan owners are specifically cursed with this MWS "self-tightening" nonsense as the MMC follows this supplier's advice and we blindlky follow anything the the MMC tells us, despite we are constantly coming up with other ideas. And for those who followed it, it is most likely too late now. Sure has given centre locks a bad rap. I deeply respect MWS products but not their advice. I do not know where they got their "tighten a spinner 3.5 turns and then let it "self-tighten". I like tradition if at all practical. That being said centre locks were made for quick wheel changes for racers. Are we all racers or wannabes? Errors can be as much of a tradition as wisdom.

Peter Morgan once wrote me that the Works gave their buyers a "start". It was for the owner to finish the car as they chose.

I agree with you about "caught in the desert". You have helped me. I can carry my adapter, at least, with me in my Morgan (s) I can always borrow a 1/2 inch breaker bar from then next garage down the road. I merely wish you spawned that idea in me 20 years ago.


BRILLIANT. I am going to try that out the next time I have my last Morgan at hand (next month)

BTW, before filling the splines with grease, I wipe them with anti-seize. Only takes a sec. And my breaker bar removal method never fails and eliminates the possibility of damage. If you have measured the length properly, you can exert the same force removing as tightening without bashing the car.

Thank you very much Sewin. Good thread and you made it better. Sadly AI is instantly garbling it for posterity. It makes a mess of gomog as well. (shiver)

Lorne

Mrs Cooperlady calls our Roadster, Basil !!

The Lionel tool with a big breaker bar is a brilliant thing, particularly if like me you can’t bring yourself to beat the car with a mallet. Essential too to leave in the foot well should the car ever need to go in for anything for others to use. Unfortunately, they’re a bit like hen’s teeth now that Lionel has retired to the sun. I was lucky, Craig Jezz kindly put me on to his mate that had a nice second hand one

Pre Lionel, I used this ali extrusion monstrosity that now stays in the junk tray.



It wouldn’t take much time to knock you up a quick CAD model and capture the geometry of mine. Can you or your machinist read 3D data, would a STEP file help you?

There are some alternatives - at a price.

https://www.tonythompsonracing.co.uk/parts/models/47/26r-protects-spinner/

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-AHH5839WX

https://knockoffspinnertool.com/

https://kelvedonlotus.co.uk/product/wheel-spinner-tool-including-socket-octagonal-nut/

There was a Lionel socket for sale on here not long ago. Sold before I could buy it. At the moment I use the simple hex "spanner" with a mod of a slight bend to give clearance when malleting. I use a lump hammer in the garage. Never needed to use the lead one in the carry-kit. Grahite grease on the splines as per MMC instructions.

Re a Lionel socket....maybe a "group buy" if one could be copied by an engineer?

You can buy a big wooden spanner for eared spinners it fits over the ears and you can belt the living daylights out of it without damaging the spinners. Think Melvyn still sells them used to be about £20 odd.