Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Monty Takes A Deep Breath

I remember the reason for Andrew asking that question...

Indeed!! I only apply for track days with motorsport level noise restrictions!

I got black flagged one year at the Richard Thorne track day at Castle Coombe because they could hear the blue and white racer all the way around the circuit from the pits.

Luckily I also took the Yellow and Grey car in the trailer so could swap out and keep going 🤣 ….. now with added flames!🔥

I'm sure you were still fine ... decibel killers aren't that good and you were only a third of the way to the noise limit 🙂

K

I seem to remember the initial static test was not conducted correctly, per Blue Book.
At the time I think I was doing trainee Environmental Scrutineer? Something I gave up, not because the job was difficult, but the difficulty in deciphering everything else to do with the Blue Book. I know things have been rewritten, but there are still a lot of contradictions and just plain indecipherable regs in the new NCRs.
One of our CoC, a fully fledged Race Clerk, is working towards his Speed qualification and regularly uses an AI search of the regs to get answers. AI quite often finds contradictions! He's an acquaintance of mine from our TVR days.
Me, I'll just stick to being a simple hill controller, operating radio and trying to ensue the correct facilities get to the correct spot when the carp hits the fan (and filling out the ruddy paperwork at the same time!)
Oh, and occasionally covering Start Line as a marshal on non-comp days

When optimising the tune on a high revving engine, nothing beats a bit of intensive track time where true data can be captured safely in the engine's upper rev range. Those of you following this post will already know Monty's recent session at Castle Combe was not without incident, but as far as I'm concerned that was to be expected, and also as planned I was finally able to safely record accurate logs above 7,000rpm where sufficient samples were taken to allow for accurate fuel dosing changes to the upper reaches of Monty's VE table.

Rather than extrapolating and estimating the VE numbers in the six key cells right at very the top right hand corner of the VE table, I was finally able to use the gathered data and the excellent EMU Black AutoTune feature to properly dial in Monty's full load fuelling from 7,000rpm to 8,400rpm, and do so in a safe controlled environment!

I've subsequently also fed the additional data I gathered at Castle Combe into AI, and it's given me the following revised dyno graph, interestingly the latest graph is only 2hp down on my earlier 'before Castle Combe' prediction of 215hp, as we can see peak horsepower is now predicted to be 213hp at 8,250rpm and peak torque arrives at 6,100rpm where Monty is giving 168 lb/ft.



Monty hits the dyno at Surrey Rolling Road next Saturday, this will provide the ultimate 'real world' evidence to show how accurate this final AI estimated graph really is? Actually it'll be interesting to lay this final AI graph over the 'real world' graph Monty produces next week. As always with rolling roads there are huge variations in the numbers they give you, but at least I'm going back to the same dyno where Monty recorded 172.7hp two years ago.

After that session I did advance Monty's ignition timing by 2.5 degrees at the top end, so I'm confident he actually made 180hp in Stage 2 tune, and before the latest changes. So it's now all about how much the A.L Developments big valve ported head and Phase 3 cams have actually added, constitutively I'd say the head is worth 15hp and the cams are worth another 10hp, so if we take 180hp and add the total additional 25hp we actually get 205hp.

TBH if Monty really does make 213hp I'll be absolutely delighted, but as far as I'm concerned anything over 200hp would represent a good result in my book, just one week to go and all will be revealed chaps

You can’t be that far away from me if Surrey Rolling Road is your dyno of choice.

I’ve just used Harding Auto Services - as they have the specific MAHA dyno required for competition.

https://hardingautos.co.uk/rolling-road/

I'm in Rickmansworth Andrew, so 35 miles from Surrey Rolling Road, I do all my own ECU calibration work (mapping) on the road and track, so I don't really need a rolling road for tuning. I use Surrey Rolling Road just to get a number, they offer what they call 'Shootout Saturdays' which is one run on their respected dyno that's known to give accurate and repeatable horsepower, torque, and lambda data.

I will also be using the run to safely record another high rpm log, I can then compare this with what I recorded at Castle Combe, they are two very different environments but the data should correlate. When I discovered Monty was dog rich at the very top end, I ran the AutoTune feature in my EMU Black software that suggests what VE numbers are needed to get the fueling to hit the lambda target, which in this case is 13.0:1.

AutoTune then gives you the option to apply 100% of its suggested corrections, or 50% of them. Because I'm working in the full load high RPM area of the VE table I chose to apply 50% of the suggested corrections, so my VE table is actually still 8% too rich at the very top end, this seems counterintuitive but it's done for safety.

Here's the rich VE table before correction, and with the problematic cells highlighted in the top right corner.





And now with 50% of AutoTune's suggested corrections applied.





My Bosch LSU 4.9 Lambda sensor is now back in stream (yes it fixed itself), so I've reinstated closed loop fueling (short term fuel trim), but now with 20% correction authority either side of the numbers in my lambda target table.



In the case of the 8% too rich top right corner of my VE table short term fuel trim with my new increased 20% correction strategy now has plenty of authority to correct the 8% over-fueling and pin the 13.0:1 AFR target. If the lambda sensor ever did go down again, which it shouldn't now there will be no over-fueling, all that happens is the ECU falls back on the 8% rich VE number in the base fueling table (the VE table), and the engine will see a very safe 11.80:1 AFR.

If you're local to Surrey Rolling Road and you'd like to pop in to see Monty on the rollers next Saturday, you'd be most welcome, it would be nice to meet you.

Dave.

That’s some very clever software and a good methodical approach.

We recorded 104 db withoout a DB killer last year, so the Castle Combe officials would'nt let us on the track . This year with the DB killer fitted we recorded 94 db, so they do work!

If you ask me, for just £8.00 delivered they're a bit of a no brainer, I've just ordered the following replacenent that should arrive this Friday, I'll be making 100% sure it definitely can't escape during our next track day.

If that design saved you 10db I'm well impressed ... have used similar ones over the years to tame my 14k rpm single seater as noise regs crept into more tracks, and found 3db closer .... but could be that they suit your specific car just nicely... however, I've also found track sound tests (even the MSUK ones administered by their trained scrutineers) to be a bit 'wobbly' at times 🙂

Where did you get them? ... looking for a couple for my wife's 500cc scrambler (currently on open pipes) ... they look like they'd tame the exhaust 'crack' a treat if they do them in smaller sizes 👍

K