Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Steering bearings

Hey guys,
Power steering costs way too much and feedback is mostly negative, so I’ve decided to try bearings. I found a place somewhere in Asia I believe that will sell me 2 bearings (Federal Mogul/NTA 240) and 4 washers (Federal Mogul/ TRA 2840 for $60. Not sure I trust them.
I’ve contacted Wolf Performance but haven’t heard back from them yet.
I’ve heard that Thorington makes these bearings sets but I’ve no idea where to start with them.
Has anyone of you installed a set of these bearings on a plus 8. Any advice with numbers or sources would be greatly appreciated.
Richard

I would suggest buying the full set from Wolf Performance who include lower torsion bearings as well fitting below stub axle and interfacing with rebound springs. The latter make a noticeable addition to steering lightness given the dynamics of the suspension system. Maybe consider fitting their rebound springs gaiters at the same time as they include a groove to hold the bearing/washer assembly in place whilst fitting as shown below.

Allon White used to sell the Wolf bearings. I know Cain & Michele have some ill parents right now so going to AW could be quicker.

There are various options at https://www.mulfab.co.uk/products/steering/ including a new product, steering bearings with housing.

They do not give details (type, height) of their newer steering bearing/races. They do not give details of the spring rates or lengths. Do you have these? Makes no sense to buy without this information unlesm you know what you need and ask for it.

I do like their adjustable ride height progressive rebounds. Very cool. I will try them next summer when I am back with my car.

Check out the concurrent thread to this one at https://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/849205/1

L.

Thanks gomog,

I replaced the OEM front suspension with the SSL kit I purchased through Morgan Spares about 6 or 8 months ago. It has been a disaster.
I don’t know what the spring rate or length is. I assumed that this would be the same for all 2003 plus 8s. No?
The steering has been very difficult even at speed. Making a left or right hand turn at 10 to 15 mph uncomfortably difficult.
I admittedly I don’t know much about these bearings but they look like they would simply replace the existing original equipment washers with little effect on height.
I don’t have a Morgan dealer here in Tallahassee. My nearest dealer is in Daytona Beach. I plan to take my car to them as soon as the weather cools to have them examine the front suspension (SSL kit) and see if they can get it sorted. I was hoping to have the bearings available when I bring the car to them in October or early November.
How would I determine the spring rates and length so that I know I will be ordering the proper parts?
Richard

Hi Recosan,

I installed myself the SSL kit on my 2005 PLUS 4 in July 2017. A great improvement on the comfort and ride. No problem with the steering, the steering was lighter. The kit included bearings for the main spring sitted at the lower part of the upper spring.

First check at static ride if the lower rebound springs are free and have just a little play, they can be turned by hand without vertical play. If you have a trolley, lift the front of the car and release quickly the lowering valve of the trolley to drop the front of the car and check.

The SSL kit allow to adjust the compression of the main spring in order to free the rebound springs. This is mandatory.

Depending of the position of the spacer during the assembly: High ride or low ride, the upper gap between the top flange and the locking ring is roughly 70mm (high ride) and 50mm (low ride) for a +8. (2017 documentation)
What configuration has been choosed? High or Low.

Nota: you can keep the previous washers/blades with the provided bearings if you have shimmy.

SSl kit (2017):
main spring 250mm length, 1.9 daN/mm stiffness ,
rebound spring 65mm length , 3 to 7.2 daN/mm variable stiffness


You can contact Daniel White or Peter Ballard. https://www.suspensionsupplies.co.uk/

CBY,
Thanks for all the info.
I am emailing Peter and Daniel right now. I’ve spent over $1500 on mechanics here in Tallahassee not to mention cost of installation so I plan to drive my car down to The Daytona Beach Morgan dealer and have them sort it out. I read many reviews of the SSL upgrade before shelling out a $1000 for the kit. Like you, most people found the new suspension “transformative”! My experience was the opposite.
I’m hoping that after getting the suspension sorted and bearings installed to ease the steering, it will finally feel transformative.
Richard

Hi Recosan,

They must have the SSL installation notice. Have you changed the kingpins? If they have to dismantled the suspension change the kingpins and the bushes if it has not been done previously.

I had steering bearings fitted on my +4 with new king pin bushes a few months back. Steering is much lighter, BUT the damper blades need to be removed (or should be to make the bearings effective). The steering wheel now shakes like mad on un-even roads, not too bad on smooth roads though. I have ordered a steering damper to help (https://www.mulfab.co.uk/products/steering/) although not fitted it yet.

As it is, it is not a nice car to drive, so I think the steering damper is a must (assuming it works as expected!!)

Firstly being able to turn the rebound springs by hand at static load is frankly rubbish. As far as I'm aware this all came about when suspension systems were being messed with and to make the older steering as light as possible rebound springs were being shortened to suit the car and reduce steering friction, the guide then was.... should be able to turn it by hand at static load! This is not applicable now to the later steering systems with no damper blades and bearings. If you see a suspension system hung up and the hub carrier sitting clear of the rebound spring the issue will lie with either: worn pins/bushes, lack of lubricant or overly weak main springs, Possibly a shortened rebound spring if you let a muppet loose with his grinder!
Lack of correct lubrication within the hub is a very real problem as firstly the hub will fail to slide effectively on the pin. any ingested grit will not be effectively expelled as the suspension will not be able to expel a small amount of grease on the larger thumps to the suspension. This is why Morgan have always recommended what seems to be an over regular greasing regime, It can't need that much grease but it needs the pressure from within to maintain longevity by cleaning the inter bearing face.! In normal use the suspension will frequently find the hub lifting clear of the rebound spring.... it's meant to work like that and the rebound springs function is to damp the hubs return as the main spring pushes the hub back down. These springs are matched pairs... well should be anyway and are designed to work in harmony as a unit. This system was introduced way before shock absorbers were invented. Read H.F.S.'s explanations and then Peter Morgans story of why he installed front shocks!

Sewin, thanks for that very interesting, I've found that driving through heavy rain and spray for lengthy periods (probabily a rare occurence for many Morgan owners) can wash the grease away completely, so it pays to check the lubrication accordingly. I found I could usually tell the the lubrication was drying out, in my experience the steering weight increased.

Spot on John re the grease emulsification in heavy spray. That's why the red sticky grease became very popular as the all weather users found it kept seal at the outer edges of the bronze bushings. I have used it but went back to Castrol molybdenum the,grey stuff. as I noticed the red held grit at those edges.
Apart from the in use grease top ups I fully flush the old grease at the end of the season. However the longer the hub/pin fitment stay fitted I have found you do get retained grease in the hub cavity and you do end up with a sort of cannel which the new grease travels through leaving old grease in place. You will know when this happens as grease applied at the nipples will exit immediately and the top nipple will produce little effect. A hub strip down, clean and inspection is the way to go and this is one of the main problems for his hanging up on the pin.

CBY,
I had new hardened chrome kingpins installed at the same time as the SSL suspension upgrade. No noticeable change in steering effort.
Richard

Sewin,
"Firstly being able to turn the rebound springs by hand at static load is frankly rubbish"

You are right for the standard Morgan configuration. But with the SSL system you have to adjust the spring compression in order to get it, and it is very easy.

The standard configuration adds the rates of the upper and lower springs, increasing the stiffness for short suspension stroke and after decreasing the stiffness on long stroke... a reverse way of what is needed. The SSL system provides the logical way.

LONG. And for tradsters only. First. read Sewin if you haven't already.

Dear Ricosan, You are not asking a single question. And this is an inexplicably a sensitive subject for many trad owners. I have put my conclusions (and those of Button) on this subject up on gomog. There are/were rumours to the effect that the kit has been updated and might have addressed some issues that appeared over time. I am not sure of this tho and do not investigate for the reasons below. .

As background, a MMC prominent once jocularly confided to me that they had kept the 1909 front suspension system, that needs uncharacteristic maintenance, because it was charming, both entrancing owners and providing dealers with a reliable income stream. We laughed together at that. I agree. There is nothing special about my front ends. They are merely tweaked to function as the original design hoped they would. My non-kit Morgans have been tried, back-to-back, by Morgan legends immediately after also take the same route with a Morgan fitted with the system. They could not tell the difference in the worst roads we could find. This super expensive add-on makes the front much more complex and my goal, once I left my Morgan teething stage, has been to make my trads as simple and reliable as I can. I have learned to shun add-ons like homemade gaiters, even the professional ones made for the rebounds. No damper blades and no top kingpin oil or grease entries.

Th Works, incrementally/sadly over the decades, got to the point where they misunderstood the components. That prejudiced the cars out of the gate. After all, HFS Morgan did not design his very-rare-in-his-day, independent front suspension to give his vehicles a brutal comportment! The attempts to address what became of it have not always been wise. And yes, as I always do with everything trad, I approached the both Ballard and White for their spring rates twice in the kit's first decade but they would not respond. A first! That has only happened with one other supplier since. Even the staff of the normally taciturn MMC are more forth-coming....to this day. However, Peter Ballard is a sweet guy and helps his customers willingly. He was a bit too technical to understand at first, but he has had a lot of practice. I had a period where I was never without one of his front ends to help sor], normally for North Americans because of the time difference. Some UK suspension experts believe the fastest cure is simply removing the kit. (shhh!)

But rather than be a doom&gloomer, there ARE three elements I like about the full kit (including the steering races). In order of importance....

1. The Kit. Very few owners properly maintain their Morgans and as we get further away from 2019, this sadness is spreading to those we hire to do it for us. General automobile training does not cover the Kit However, the installation of the kit forces whoever is doing it to perform do the needed maintenance as it is incidental to the installation. So yes, the buyers is instantly delighted with his front end for a period after that. Of course, it might be a very expensive way to do costless front end maintenance done in minutes so be it. I If it costs 2000 quid to properly grease, even once, so be it.

2. The Steering Races. Actually, IMHO, they don't have much steering benefit for on R&P and Gemmer trads. However, I use them on all my r&p Plus 8s as they eliminate yet another maintenance task and risk, namely the damper blades.. The only codicil here is the Main Spring length should reflect the added height of the steering races produce..aside from the Sheally's fix.

3. The Rebounds. I like the cut down rebounds (mine) or better still, progressive ones. Racers have been cutting down the rebounds for decades. Even the MMC staff of old left them off completely on their Works trial cars. The rebound's aggressive engagement with the stub axles was one of the mistakes the Works adopted over time. BTW I notice that Mulfab is now selling progressives separately. Of course, the rebound function could be more logically handled with a progressive neoprene bump stop. (

Now onto to your other questions. direct and implied.

A. Your proposed dealer is another new one I do not know. And unless they have dealt with many of these front ends I cannot guarantee you their success, only the size of their invoice.

B. The spring rates of your springs should, properly supplied, be written on them. But, as mentioned, this is not always the case. Your rebounds are now progressive so nothing to deal with for them. Those of us with stock rebounds should know that they are normal double the spring rate of the Main Spring! If both have an effect on the stub axle, that can make for a brutal front, another characteristic of unsorted trads. You can also ask a well-equipped machinist to test them.

C. However, the best spring rates for Plus 8s and Roadsters are already well-known to Morgan familiars. But after Bill Beck left in 2002/3, the MMC began playing with the spring rates of both Mains and Rebounds. They became much softer, and the later trads began to wallow in the corners as a consequence. When they were first introduced, some of the UK dealers used to call them the "Terrible Blues"! 😂 and those they removed could consequently be bought cheaply on ebay.co.uk Another watchpoint for you is that American Morgans are significantly heavier.

What type of driving and roads do you you like and what is they height of the steering bearing assembly? I can then advise. I am musing about 140s or 125s for you to, mated with the progressives you already have.

Lorne

P.S. Do you have a side shot of your trad after the installation? I am curious.

Richard111, have you adjusted the tracking? it makes a big difference to the steering judder.

DB

Ricosan and Richard III, suggest you check the steering rack if you have issues following replacing damper blades with steering bearings. There have been several reports of over lively steering after such and some have then resorted to keeping the damper blades or in at least one case fitting an external damper without checking steering rack first, whether it be Jack Knight or later Quaife. Such damping then masks the problem in the steering rack itself so it makes sense to check at source first.

Rather than repeating the exercise suggest checking out this thread noting that rack adjustment alone may not cure the issue if the plastic yoke is seized redering the spring loading on rack itself ineffective, and summed up by DaveW's post here. In my own case I didn't have clicking (except from normal indicator cancelling mechanism) just very light steering so it was more of an investigation, finding the plastic yoke on the verge of sticking. End result was a more damped and calmer (less lively) steering experience over bumps.

Tracking can then be checked later if felt necessary.

Cutting a spring increases its stiffness and the full round contact area is destroyed. The spring does not move in line.

Great stuff here all! Lorne, smashing in depth analysis and history and again I find myself accepting the fact that The Morgan front end will always have its issues, it's old design yet an independent suspension system! AND FLAWED yet that's why we bought the trad isn't it. We love the old fashioned feel it gives us and as Lorne says again, a well serviced and correct system cannot be bettered very much yet it really can empty your wallet and the service element is still needed on your updated mod, or another unnecessary wallet emptying experience comes along. So come on all you who seek the best here...... learn about the function of the standard system and learn how to look after it yourself. Again I remind you of H.F.S.'s mantra when he designed his cars. An owner can look after this himself with a jack and a few simple tools and up until 2019, oh yes! 110 years we have been able to do that!

Richard is again so right in the requirements of the steering rack. The spring loaded nylon damper function being correct is vital as this holds a tension between the rack movement and the outer tube assembly. this prevents a too light a steering allowing kick back through the steering wheel and even a rattle or judder at the same. It is purely a friction device and not an adjuster to achieve a closer mesh between the pinion gear and rack.
I believe it should have a service protocol, probably best undertaken when a gaiter needs replacing. So many trads have steering issues directly related to just this one element, so as Richard suggests, read these previous threads that he has indicated. Some you find have mistakenly made an adjustment to this damper by tightening the adjuster, viewing it in totally the wrong way and making their steering even worse. Now here's the biggy! If through the nylon element jamming and the oh so regular find of lack of lubrication within the rack you get some wear at the keyed face of the nylon plunger the rack inner rod can start to rotate as steering direction constantly changes in normal driving. This then relies on the track rod inner attachment followers to apply pressure to the outer tube edges of the slot as the rack element tries to rotate within the outer tube wearing that slot and eventually you will hear a clicking or even a banging as the followers can move up and down in the slot. Not a desirable outcome as a rack here has a large price tag. you can re machine the slot and add larger followers but you will probably need a machine shop to do this for you! This of course for the non hands on of us only applies to cars with rack and pinion steering not steering boxes. I am a bit of a loner when it comes to my Morgan, but through local club association it should be possible to get the hands on to help the don't knows and create a closer relationship for more with their cars. I'm afraid this will have to happen as yes, even the garages can't provide the knowhow to the same level as they used to.

*
My own understanding is that rebound springs were historically shortened as a bodge (as per CBY post) to reduce static pre-load on rebound springs which in turn resulted in the fact based massively high spring rate of having both springs in play. This in turn causing uncomfortably hard suspension but then sagging into corners due to inside main spring compression taking rebound spring out of play and effective spring rate reducing to that of main spring alone. Several owners and at least one magazine test of Plus 8 brought this fact to light many decades ago. Peter Ballard explained it and mentioned that ironically as main springs weakened with age the issue could dissapear. Suggesting the rebound pre-load test is rubbish for an entirely different and less important reason is not a fair comment. Its as relative today for trads as ever.

Exactly correct, a pre-loaded main spring due to a compressed rebound spring gives a massively high initial rate followed by a sudden drop in rate as the rebound spring unloads.

All documented and explained years ago by Peter Ballard, I remember the huge consternation it caused among people who didn't understand the physics behind springs in parallel vs. in series. It was hugely entertaining at the time to read all the eMog posts telling Peter he didn't understand how suspension systems worked!

https://www.lambdapi.co.uk/morganatica/Front_Suspension_Spring_Characteristics_-_Trad_Models

Well CBY is totally correct in his analysis of cutting springs down, take the boy racer with his cut down micro hatch back. It's not an MOT fail for no reason!
To a great extent the rebound spring is just a damper. When in a turn enough to effect G forces which load the outside suspension the spring compression rate of the main spring has no detrimental effect from its ability to compress at the design rate regardless of whether or not the rebound spring remains at full unloaded length or is subjected to a degree of compression itself. Its main functions are to keep the hub carrier in a balanced contact position on the pin whilst allowing the small movements as the hub responds via the wheel to the movement from the road surface. This prevents hub carriers hanging up on the pin as during these smaller movement it has a push pull effect to the carrier.

When/if the suspension is subjected to a sudden and harsh suspension requirement the compression rate applied to the main spring can be large and the distance up the pin the carrier can travel is substantial within the design profile. During this event the carrier will lose all contact with the rebound spring and when returned to its normal position by the return force of the main spring the rebound spring will absorb the shock as the carrier reaches the bottom of it's travel and damp the shock that would otherwise become a metal to metal crash. were it to be a bump stop instead, the return action would be too great for the repeated and constant contact it would receive, and indeed to harsh.

Now here is why they wished to unload the static compression to the rebound spring. and remember these cars originally had no shock absorbers. You can do this in two ways. firstly cut the spring down which increases its compression strength or fit a spring with a greater load rating. What you then want to see is next to no compression or decompression to the rebound spring from either static load position or unloaded and to a great extent this was achieved by spring length, spring load rating and the extended load rating of the main spring. so, if the car now hits a negative obstiacle ie a pot hole most modern cars accelerate the suspension down into the hole only for the wheel to hit the other side and possibly disrupt the stability of the car. This is only offset by the shock absorber fitted as it slows the downward suspension acceleration into the negative obstacle. The sliding pillar system tends to hold its wheel clear without the aid of a shock absorber.

It is actually a genius system, not invented by H.F.S. as other manufacturers were using very similar set-ups. however we are only talking about an item between to opposing springs allowing it to move and return to it's rest position. The SSL does offer two things over standard, not that it can improve the basic function of the set-up. It has a variable load rate spring, This allows the small suspension movements from relatively good surfaces so the oscillation between the rebound spring and main spring allow slightly more travel movement and is softer enabling these movements of the suspension to have less effect to the car body and people traveling in it. After this compression level any greater forces are absorbed progressively by the stonger section of the main spring so that higher driving forces are accommodated. That is really returning to normal Morgan suspension function however, what it does give here as an extra is that you have an adjustable load setting which does give an option to set the stiffness which suits you best for both comfort and driving style.
Some people love this set up others loath it although I can't see why. I personally haven't found when I have driven cars so fitted that I found it a marvellous thing but I hadn't set it for my driving preference so who knows? But I find my cars standard set up which is correct and serviced suits me fine. Perhaps I would consider variable rate springs as that could only help, I find the standard car firm enough for me but would I then start chasing the Kings new clothes?

TY CBY, I got you. You are saying an unengaged (!) rebound coil spring has an "increased" effect on the stub axle and its lower contact area. Personally, I have never seen that happen. In any event, my vote is for progressive neoprene or microcellular polyurethane stops Happily, this thread had me do enough research that I see they can be found everywhere. These would certainly not be as fiddly as metal springs, last forever and cover the rebound area of the kingpin so many people try to cover with rubber covers or homemade stockings. (I tried them 30 years ago at Cuthbert's suggestion, and then removed them as they interfered with quick cleaning with a high pressure hose.


I like that very much. You put your finger on it. A trad..or at least until the MMC were forced to use engine fuelling technology that cannot be fully interacted with by an owner, preserved the characteristics of a Golden Age of Automobiling. Up until 1990, trads can be FILLY interacted with..which made my immense mileage possible. It was the reason I bought one, despite it then being the only one in area the size of western Europe. I was in my 40s and the nearest dealer was 400 miles. I had no choice but to learn. If admire you. You had options and embraced the full Morgan hobby nonetheless. IT IS GREAT FUN!

And YES. RichardV6's is a fine post. TY Richard I believe I was confusing front springs and leaf springs. This is why I feel safer posting with a collegiate debate format. I should have followed my comments on GoMoG.But being wrong is the only time one learns anything!

You also touch upon a basic I forgot. IMHO, the front end suspension primary task is to keep the steering wheel neutral. Of course it has other effects. Unsorted that part of driving become no fun. Aside from that deadly discomfort, the comfort inn the cabin (aka your life partner) is at the rear springs. Google it. Leaf spring spring rates do not age....they sag though. (wish I could currently find something in trad leaf springs to recommend!) And I chose Cain's dampers 2-3 years ago, when they just came out. I installed them then. but haven't tried or adjusted them yet as my last remain Plus 8 is up on stands in Canada since. .I began what I thought would be a 3 weeks job changing the dash loom and fusebox..but expanded that to replace the chassis loom and rear loom, (The Rover EFI loom is very high quality. 2-3 days left to do. I don't live in Quebec any more..only visit on occasion.

Sewin, did you know that Peter Morgan only added front shock absorbers because owners complained as they couldn't fathom a car without them! But shock absorbers change oscillations to something more pleasant to humans. Springs do the major work. Shocks change their harmonics https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/shocks.html


I presume you mean RichardIII? Yes. His is a noteworthy post as well. If the shock bushes are worn (there was a short period when the beloved Rutherford AVOs did but Tim covered us all). James Phillips of ThamesMog pointed that out to me that if the bushes holding dampers are worn or rotten (which can happen prematurely) the absorbers have too much wriggle room and that has a sad effect. Merely changing the those bushes cures it. Amazing how much shock angst and money that one has saved over 30 years. [i]There was a run of faulty bushes not so long ago[i] Thank you for reminding us of this area. Page 1 of this thread. I agree it should have a "service protocol". I shall add that to GoMoG.

Lorne

In essence the rebound spring assists dampers in controlling rebound (no surprise) after a bump or undulation in the road has been absorbed (to a degree ) by main spring compression. It also serves to provide anti-roll characteristics in that the inner wheel unloading in a turn is resisted by combined spring rate so tending to keep body in a flatter plane and consequently more rubber on the tarmac.

For this reason as well as ensuring there is no static compression on rebound spring, as mentioned above, its also important there is no static gap existing between rebound spring and bottom of stub axle, such that both rebound and anti-roll properties come into play soonest. This is why the "just able to turn rebound spring" static test is performed as an aiming point.

Thanks for the link Tim, had been trying to find Peters explanation for my post above. Have now bookmarked it

Hopefully my shorter (orginal) explanation of trad suspension roll resistance isn't too far at odds with Peter's.

Yes Lorne, I remember how Peter bodged on some front shocks to placate the masses, evidently he got tired of explaining to customers. That might explain why we still have shock mounts failing at the front end as frankly they were only just about tidied up from the bodge! Peter's favourite was to allow a customer to drive his car that had no shock absorbers fitted, just the lever arm Armstrongs at the back! Like the morris minor has! What am I talking about you'd have to be 55 at least to know that. But as we all now know he relented in the end! As a nipper I can remember asking my dad to get new front shocks when he set me to cleaning up the front end (That bloody oiler!)for my pocket money. You could push them in and out like a.... well let's not go there! "Nothing wrong with them" he said and relayed the Peter story to me! Do you know what..... they are still as weak and as they ever were and as you said, all they can possibly do is damp harmonics. It's the springs folks that do all the work! never mind fancy front end make overs! If it could have been improved I'm sure that in the last 75 years it would have been. So let's all take the time to service and understand sliding pillar suspension.

Actually, It was very nearly improved upon and Montegue has the evidence.... double wishbones, am I jealous, of course I am. Think there were only 5 cars that ever had it fitted, I believe by mulberry fabrications but don't quote me! Such a shame that Morgan didn't pick up on it and finish the trad's time using that system.
I think we are in danger of entering the rabbit hole again... or perhaps we are still stuck down there! There are those who are looking for the grail and spend endless sums trying to find it and others who really only need to return to the H.S.F. philosophy of fix and service it on the drive. If you don't you soon won't be able to find anyone who can do it for you...... watch a new mechanic trying to find the OBD2 port, yes he' stuffed unless the computer says do this! And as 1986 was ancient history to him he doesn't believe this shiny bright car doesn't have one.

Hi Lorne,
"You are saying an unengaged (!) rebound coil spring ..."

Why "unengaged"?

If you cut a spring you increase its rate. When the rebound and main springs are both compressed, the stiffness is greater as previous with this non cutted spring.

I guess you use "progressive neoprene or microcellular polyurethane stops" (silent blocks?) instead of rebound springs. Could you provide the dimensions and photos. It is very interessing.

Ah CBY, i've seen the rabbit! You are of course quite right in that a cut spring does indeed carry a greater load yet in standard linear spring ratings each inch compressed carries the same load but an engaged or under compression spring is carrying load and thus pressure whereas one that is just approximating its fitting space at rest or static load, this has no force pressing upwards against the main spring so although the springs appear to be in series they are in fact in parallel. as each spring has a separate load effect. if the rebound spring in this case of which we speak under static load were applying force against the upper main spring the force of the two springs would provide the total spring rating of the suspension. so by using this adjustment of a shorter rebound spring giving a static/driving suspension rating much closer to the value of the main spring. This then releives the locking up pressures on the hub when steering. Now if you fitted a full length rebound spring and it was under load at static rest or straight ahead, when driving all is fairly well, but then you go into a hard corner and the force on the outside suspension equalises the loading of the two springs together now being pushed in the same direction and this has a softening effect on that unit so some chassis stiffness is lost because first the rebound spring being much smaller is quickly overcome and so the total springs rating is provided by the main spring. This then is how a resolution moved to higher rate main springs. Let's stop here other than to say all these modifications will sort one aspect of the suspension you are trying to fix yet introduce another that you might not want.

Incidentally, not all Morgan trad's left the factory with the same rebound spring requirements, I'm not going to go searching at the moment but can tell you that my 2010 plus 4 has RB's which are under load against the main spring whereas others have little to no loading at static rest, fairly sure the Roadster is one! This is to suit the driving characteristics Morgan intended for that mark. So care needs to be taken when changes are being made especially if you want to improve what you have and not make it a detrimental move because someone told you to cut the springs down. The SSL aims to cover this as you are able to adjust main spring loading and therefore take advantage of the progressive rate springs. But again for me personally I haven't felt enough advancement over a properly serviced standard set up to warrant the cost. Again though, I feel mine is as good as it could be and the cars I have driven with the SSL, I had no knowledge of their set-up. I will say again that the two mod's that I really felt improved handling and ride quality on my car were Brake reaction bars and Rog's suspension assisters. When pushing things along a bit the BRB's really take some of the skittishness out of the front end and that's a driving thing and the rear assisters really soften and damp the ride throughout the cabin, that's a comfort thing.

After taking delivery of my 4/4 in nov 2011, I had to get different shocks & geometry sorted by Techniques Morgan during its 1st service. I remember reading by upas much as I could. What I seem to remember is that the 4/4s & Roadsters had their rebound springs just touching the hub, at operating weight Hence the ability to just turn them by hand. But the +4s were apparently supposed to have their rebound springs under load. Does anyone else remember this ? Unfortunately at the time I never discovered why.
Also at that time mmc were using 115 lb front main springs on the 4/4 , ensured they bottomed out all the time. MMC were trying to soften the ride & escape from the quoted heads or tails ride. At the risk of upsetting some, I actually wondered if MMC actually employed a proper qualified engineer.

A reminder that Cain/Wolf Performance sell lower steering (torsion) bearings fitting between top of rebound spring and bottom of stub axle, taking up barely 3mm. As can be seen they are often ordered with rebound spring gaiters to keep out road muck. Tap for link.



Despite some pouring cold water on the concept they do reduce steering stiction noticeably since suspension dynamics have the rebound spring regularly in and out of play.

Hi sewin,
"but then you go into a hard corner...so the total springs rating is provided by the main spring" I agree.

"This then is how a resolution moved to higher rate main springs"... I agree

On the SSL suspension the main spring is not progressive... but a third spring named "rate riser" is in parallel of the main spring at the top of the king pin.
This rate riser spring is progressive and replace the standard silent block. When the wheel rises, in a first time only the main spring is active and after a short stroke the rate riser spring is compressed in parallel with the main spring,
adding its rate and creating a progressive increasing rate. These configuration absorbs in a first time the small bumps (main spring) and in a second time big bumps (main spring + rate riser) in a progressive way.

The rate riser spring is more progressive and softer than the standard silent block.

I guess that SSL has killed the rabbit.

Ice pack you are spot on,
It's what I was holding in my head but didn't have time to search so didn't want to quote! I too heard all sorts of reasons for it but could never find a definitive answer so I sort of shelved them as I never got to the bottom of it. But owning a plus 4 I did hold onto the fact, and it is fact, that the rebound spring is held under pressure on that model and I am expecting to be shot down re. the rest, although reaching deep into the memory it was something like this....... The 4-4 was a gentle A and B road pleasure car and the Roadster being considered a tourer for crunching the miles had similar demands.....so a similarly balanced set up... WHAT, I remember thinking, A V6 rocket, that doesn't make sense. And now here's the bit I really didn't get. The plus 4 was always considered the more powerful car (might have been sportier)so is expected to be pushed and the set up here reflects that!

Well this would be a nice one to put to bed, hope someone knows the truth here as I'd hate to think we are creating a myth to join so many others.

Look at the price! Cain is such an honest guy! He reminds me of the old days. They look like Torrington bearings that John Sheally 2 used from the late 1970s. They helped precipitate an eMog initiative to produce them for that gang at cost. Roger Shawyer, a wonderful mogger from Australia, volunteered and did that for 100+ of us, with the addition of a protective cover that Peter Mulberry helped us with his experiences and advice. (early 2000s.) And yes, their low height makes a made-to-suit Main Spring unnecessary. https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/rollerbearing.html As for the "mad muck" read on....


By "unengaged" I mean with no pre-load of the rebound, much like Peter Ballard achieves his little progressive spring. I have noted the rebounds being left off (MMC staff Saturday fun Trials) OR cut so it barely touches the bottom of the stub axle. If these are the case what effect does the rebound spring rate on the front at rest?!! Coil springs only exert pressure when they are compressed! 😉 Yet we receive our trads with the rebounds with usually double the spring rate of the Main Spring, notably preloaded and ready for bear. A lightly pre-loaded progressive is smarter and he won't sell his rebounds without buying a lot more which is not necessary. Chacun a son gout. IMHO, those little progressive spring is the best part of the Ballard system.

We can do that a better way hopefully. perhaps. AND cover two issues with one inexpensive forever part. To whit" The industry standard used for generations now is to use a normal bump stop (duh!) preferably made in modern microcellular polyurethane, foam, or specially slotted elastomers, or neoprene, inexpensive and permanent. (I did some homework for you ). Look below. I picked out one of many from a goggle search. Try it. " progressive bump stops " as the research term.

It is certainly more logical to use a bump stop as a bump stop rather than a coil spring for that task. They could also be made to cover the exposed lower part of the kingpins and do away with. Ideally they would fit snuggly around the kingpin (ID 1") and even made to extend up when uncompressed to cover the kingpin exposure. They come in all colours so those who wish could make whatever statement they wanted. So why bother discussing the effect of cut or uncut rebounds? Frankly I don't like them much cut or uncut. We should be smarter than they are after 115 years. But as I noted, the Factory believed that WE found them charming, likely because we over-dwell on them and spend ridiculous sums trying to sort them not counting the angst speaking to this area.. 😂


You are correct in ALL these points, Sewin, ..or at least we agree. (wryly) There was even a period (in the 1970s) when the Works mistakenly installed too long rebounds. New cars came with these coil bound. Must have been brutal! Never got reported as us owners just accepted it!!!! Another reason trads design got an undeserved reputation for being lousy.

And yes, for some reason some people become inexplicably agitated when this area is discussed. It would be wise to drop it.

Lorne