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Thread Like Summary
OZ 4/4, Ruut Bianchi, ScotiaSteve, waikiore
Total Likes: 5
Original Post (Thread Starter)
#830374 09/11/2025 9:09 AM
by ScotiaSteve
ScotiaSteve
So I have a 1959 Morgan, a 4/4 low miles low owner massive history car with Competition head installed in the 60's I believe to factory spec. I've spent around 120 hours doing minor jobs on it over the past month, a labour of love, from what was a very solid car (restored with new chassis in the 1980's) with no rot and which actually handles really well.

I'm a bit torn, I really enjoy tinkering and making things better, the car draws a lot of attention (which is good and bad) and is of course slow, slightly uncomfortable and best suited to short or medium journeys. I had wanted a Plus 4, traditional, lowish mileage, but this came up locally and I fell in love with it. I call it Buddy.

However, I don't wish to change engine to make it more of a tourer, as that would take away it's rarity and originality.

I am considering upgrading the ignition to electronic (it has new twin SU carbs), to give it a bit more oomph in 3rd, it flies in 1st and 2nd, but have tested the water with selling it, to upgrade to a Plus 4, maybe a 2012 to 2018 model, which the wife would actually want to go in.

Space at home is limited, and the car needs to be garaged, so it will be the case of one in, one out.

Is the Plus 4, traditional, a much more refined experience? These cars are not expensive compared to MG's etc, and are very simple to work on, but the usability is a little compromised (B roads and country lanes fine).

Just wondered if anyone has upgraded from an older 4/4 and regretted it.
Liked Replies
#830655 Sep 16th a 08:13 AM
by Heinz
Heinz
My 2014 4/4 still has a galvanised ladder frame. If my memory serves me correctly, a plastic-coated ladder frame was introduced in 2016 with the ARP4, then for all Trad models, due to environmental regulations that no longer allowed galvanisation. I hope that's more or less correct.

Others here will know better, but I read at the time that this plastic coating on the steel is more susceptible to damage than a galvanised ladder frame. My 2005 Roadster already had a galvanised ladder frame. DaveW will know exactly when they were introduced.
My two cents on your choice. I have a 2014 4/4 and I'm very happy with it overall. We've driven 120,000 km in it since then, including some nice trips to Italy and Austria.

I have compared it with Roadsters and with a 2011 P4 Super Sport, which I drove for two years. This current 4/4 is the cheapest Morgan I have had and it is the one that has grown very dear to my heart over 11 years. It is fantastic fun on B roads. Without ECU mapping and without a sports manifold, however, it is borderline sluggish on motorway inclines.
I haven't made many changes, which I have described here:

https://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthrea...fect-a-philosophical-question#Post830021

The increase from 110 hp to a measured 145 hp and correspondingly more torque have made the car very drivable... very lively on B roads and on the motorway (if I did it) more than 180 km/h in 5th gear.
Normally, mapping a naturally aspirated petrol engine is not very productive. But in this case, there was a noticeable difference. The torque curve of the standard Sigma 1.6 was very unusual, with no peak but a dip where the engine should have the most torque. I googled the engine type. I can only speak for myself, I don't want to generalise. According to the type number, my Sigma 1.6 is a crate engine built for combined heat and power plants. Morgan obviously bought it and installed it. I don't have any reliable knowledge, but perhaps the mapping was designed for an efficient, constant speed, just a guess. The positive thing is that, with relatively little effort, I was rewarded with torque and horsepower because the engine was throttled. As I said, I can't generalise.

Now to a not very happy point, although I've really come to terms with it now and, given today's performance, it's okay. Morgan has been installing the Mazda gearbox in its series since around 2012. I remember that the first Trad with a Mazda gearbox was the P4 Supersport from 2011, then the 75th anniversary 4/4 from 2012.
That's a good thing. But at around the same time, maybe a year or two later, there was a new BTR rear axle, which I also have. There is no shorter gear ratio available for my axle for any amount of money. Strangely enough, there are very few isolated cases where a 2014 4/4 was delivered with a 3.9 gear ratio instead of the standard 3.7 gear ratio. And also the 2016 ARP4 was described to have a 3.9 ratio, so they must exist.

If you buy a slightly older 4/4 Sport as Richard describes above, you won't have the Mazda gearbox but one from Ford, which is also ok. Only the ratios are slightly different because the Ford gearbox was designed for a Transit and not for a light MX5. Anyway, my point is that with these cars, let's say between 2008 and maybe 2011, you can keep the rear axle without incurring very high costs and you can have it converted from 3.7 to 4.1. In my opinion, the 4.1 is more suitable and livelier for a 4/4.

Now I come to the next alternative. If I had to or wanted to swap my Morgan again, it would be a 4/4 from around 2003. What's special about it is that it was the last 4/4s with its own specific ladder frame, which is noticeably lighter than the subsequent standard frame that all Trads then shared. Others are welcome to add or correct anything here, e.g. did the 4/4 70th anniversary with its 1.8 Zetec engine still have the lighter ladder frame?

Those would be nice cars. And I think that until around 2003, these cars all still had a 4.1 rear axle ratio.
As I said, I'm happy with what I have, and my younger years of wild swapping are long gone. But if you have the choice, I would consider a 4/4 1.8 from the early 2000s because it has all the beneficial improvements such as galvanisation, etc. I don't know whether these Zetecs already have an aluminium body or aluminium wings. I also don't know whether the front wall is already made of aluminium.

Another rare alternative, if you come across one, is the aforementioned 2012 75th anniversary 4/4. Perhaps a little heavier in the engine compartment, but with the 2.0 Duratec... the most popular and most tuned engine in so many models and brands. Personally, however, I would steer clear of a later GDI engine.
The 75th anniversary also has a 3.7 gear ratio which is more suitable for the 2.0 engine and everyone here in the forum who has or had one seemed to be very happy with it.
2 members like this
#830377 Sep 11th a 09:30 AM
by Graham, G4FUJ
Graham, G4FUJ
Regret? No. But I did miss the simplicity of a mid 70s X-flow after going to a '93 1.8 Zetec.
Alongside the 70s 4/4 (8 years in my custody) I also ran a Rover engined +4, for 11 months. Same width as the then current +8. Lovely engine, but too blinking wide to safely get down my driveway. Also found it very difficult to judge proximity to hedges (particularly where they had walls hidden in them) so it was sold on.
1 member likes this
#830648 Sep 15th a 11:22 PM
by waikiore
waikiore
Oh I believe the galv chassis was from late 90s -they went to something else from 2014, for touring I very much enjoy my V8 but as a chuckable sporty drive I believe the sweet spot may be a 1.8 4/4 or the later Sigma variant .
1 member likes this
#830654 Sep 16th a 08:12 AM
by JohnHarris
JohnHarris
Ruut,

Still looking good for its age. joy
1 member likes this
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