Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms New or secondhand?

Having had quite a few Morgan's over the years, I must say that that I agree with you Gambalunga. Most of the minor issues that we have had in recent years on our Mog's, have been dealt with efficiently by our local Dealers - SGT, who unfortunately will no longer be Morgan Retail Dealers.

Any more specialist issues have been dealt with by the Works when the cars have gone back for servicing and so far we have not had an issue in getting warranty problems resolved.

This contrasts quite markedly with the C63 AMG which I sold earlier in the year, many of you know the new owner, and one of the alloy wheels developed a hairline crack in one of the wheels and the tyre was deflating. This crack was found by the local Mercedes Dealer when the tyre was stripped off. The wheel had not been kerbed and the crack was not near a rim, and whilst the Dealer agreed that it looked like a manufacturing fault he said that Mercedes would not accept a warranty claim for the wheel. Period!

The new owner wrote to Mercedes UK, who advised it was not a warranty claim without even examining the wheel. Another communication was sent with photos of the said wheel and showing the location of the crack and the fact the rest of the wheel was completely undamaged, again the same terse reply - it is not a warranty claim.

Being a businessman he got his lawyers to write to Mercedes saying that they intended taking a legal remedy to resolve the warranty claim and immediately on receipt of same Mercedes UK contacted him by phone to say the wheel would be replaced under warranty. As he had already bought a new wheel, the car does not have a spare, they agreed to compensate him quite generously with free servicing, etc.

The reason that I have given this example of another manufacturer's response to a legitimate claim, I have some personal experience with Mercedes (and Jaguar) that is similar, is to make a couple of points. Firstly, any manufacturer can have 'issues' and as cars become more complex, electrical gremlins quite often cause serious issues as mechanical quality generally gets better.

Secondly, for me it is how the manufacturer deals with the issues that matters and I would have been as incensed as the new owner by Mercedes' attitude. Whilst the 3W has had some serious issues, so far mine has had two bevel boxes and three compensators, this has been dealt with without any argument and so far, the car has not let me down nor have I been grounded.

We tend to hear about the problem cars, whatever the marque/model, but the majority of cars, including Morgan's, are relatively trouble-free.

Cheers
Brian

I'm not convinced that the scale of production makes much difference. It is how the dealer/manufacturer responds that makes the difference.

I'm still getting over the experience of owning a RR Evoque SI4 Dynamic. It was delivered with a cracked windscreen and then over 6 months it developed 3 serious faults, all seemingly due to problems between software and hardware.

The dealer and JLR support were excellent, but in the end I lost all confidence and moved it on for a BMW.

It is worth comment that although the warranty is issued by the manufacturer the owner's contract of sale is with the seller and all legal redress has to be directed at the seller. Dealers frequently hide behind the warranty. I have to say that the Morgan dealer who sold me Aldermog has responded to one minor problem with an oil leak totally correctly. I'm impressed.

New Lotus, now with 8000 miles, ZERO faults, niggles or 'issues'

Now compare with my Morgan experience

New 4/4 Sport in 2009, sold with 7000 miles, gearbox out to cure oil leak, speedo pick-up on prop shaft failed 4 times, oil leak from pressure gauge connection - 1 week to fix, delivered with stripped thread on Sport luggage rack, stripped thread on front suspension stay bar (fixed them myself)

New 4/4 Sport in 2010, sold with 8000 miles, baggy hood and cracked inlet manifold replaced at first service, cracked windscreen replaced FOC, excessive whine from sports ratio diff - just put up with that, speedo pick-up failed, offside wing 3/4 inch higher on front edge than nearside, enamel flaked off wings badge.

Roadster bought at ten months old/ 4000 miles in 2011, sold with 11000 miles in 2012, spare wheel not balanced, paint blemish - nearside wing repainted under warranty,bonnets rubbed scuttle, MIL came on regularly, never cured so bought a reset tool from Amazon and kept it handy, hood was baggy to the extent that at 80 mph on the Autoroute (130k/ 81mph speed limit) the sidescreens popped out at top.Exhaust leaked at silencer joints.

None of the above would put me off another Morgan but Lotus is in a different league when it comes to build and design quality, bearing in mind my Elise costs the same as a plus 4 yet comes with aircon/abs/traction control/cruise control/electric windows/alarm and central locking - and a 3 yr warranty

Easter, thats a sad reflection on the Morgan Motor Company. To have 3 Morgans in that short period of time and have so many varying problems is a real worry. My roadster's MIL comes on regularly and its very annoying. Mostly the same code for a non existent sensor.

Its been aired on here many times about quality control, perhaps there is a case for MMC/Dealers to up their game and improve the situation.

Neil

"comes with aircon/abs/traction control/cruise control/electric windows/alarm and central locking"

Ha.......so it drives itself with you being cool in the process? Nice!

I'm not sure what's worse, actually. The fact that the cars were delivered with so many faults from the factory, the fact they they weren't picked up and rectified by the dealer during the PDI, or that many of the faults weren't simply properly fixed by the dealer - 4 attempts to fix a speedo cable pickup?

It's stuff like this that reassures me that my decision to buy second-hand and improve the car myself over the years has been a sound one.

As I said despite the catalogue of problems I would still buy another Morgan, you just need a sense of (humour) perspective, I consider myself very fortunate to be in a position to fund a weekend car and if the part of the price is de-snagging, well I can put up with that as long as MMC and their dealers do their best to sort the problems with good grace - and with the exception of one dealer- they always have.

The baggy hoods proably bugged me the most, MMC only make open trads and there was no excuse for not getting that right. Oily bits like anything mechanical/electrical can give grief and I was never marrooned at the roadside. Lotus just have a much higher bar for quality control, the new owners DRB Hicom licence build Mercedes S Class saloons and that has filtered through to Hethel, for instance when a new Lotus is road tested the entire lower half of the car is wrapped in 'clingfilm' to protect the paintwork from stone chips

Just one final thought, although my Lotus has reached the age/mileage where I might usually consider a swap I have no plans to do so - mind you I said that about the 4/4 and the Roadster

I dont think for a minute that the difference Easter describes is down to Hicom or to the dealers. Dealers for both marques will be just as reliable / unreliable, and often the same company. Its my view that a satisfactorily reliable car is one that is well built in the factory because dealer repairs are at best a lottery. And by the way, my father was a dealer.

I know I have dribbled on about this before, but I reckon that the difference such as it is is down to the standard of the factories. For those who have never been there, Lotus at Hethel is like a smaller version of a major manufacturer with all the facilities you might expect. It has to be hopelessly uneconomic with the volumes they sell, but it does mean that cars are assembled on a proper assembly line. In short they are nearer mass produced than hand made like Morgan. And it does help that Lotus are a significant player in the motor industry technical consultancy game - they have the know how.

Morgan in contrast has an old fashioned hand made approach producing cars as they did in the 30s / 40s with the quality ( from what easter reports) that we had in that era. But, and its a major but, the Morgan way is low cost low overheads and the reason why Morgan carry on making a profit whilst loss making Lotus go from owner to owner .

Easters comments about being willing to buy another Moggie are interesting. He seems to feel, as I do after several Moggie road tests, that the Lotus is a better performing modern sports car but the Morgan has a character and a style that makes it very attractive despite its faults. I agree with him. Anyone want to buy a Lotus? Immac, 17k miles, 190bhp in 900kg, aircon, traction, leather and gently treated by one geriatric owner.

Howard - If only it was three inches narrower, and you'd mentioned that three months ago..........

I take full responsibility for Easter's distraction, it was all my fault.