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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,823 Likes: 81
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,823 Likes: 81 |
Dear Boys, I respect all of you and can see both main points of view. It's good to see so much testosterone making its way onto the pages, but hasn't this now reached an impasse? Everyone has a point here, and none of you are idiots or evil, so may I suggest that we need to move on. It's getting a bit personal, and I don't think further posts are going to add anything.
I love my M3W - warts and all - but am interested in any possible improvements or solutions to the front end issues - to add to the debate, my nearside steering arm whacks the exhaust on anything but quite small bumps, and I'd love a cure for this too! But I have no regrets and lick my little car regularly (almost).
A friend of mine is convinced that the perfect car is boring, and none of us want that, but we do want the best and safest piece of 3-wheeled fun we can get, and are all keen motorists by dint of simply being on these pages. May I humbly suggest that this thread should be closed? Wiscos, I agree with much of this (if not all); however, I am caught between a rock and a hard place. As much as I dislike what is being said about myself, and this site, if I close the discussion I am censoring people's ability to express their feelings on the issue. That, in a nutshell, will play into the hands of people who believe we are trying to stifle debate and goes against everything we (the moderators) want TM to be. If people want to continue the discussion, including taking shots at me, they are welcome to: I am old enough and ugly enough to take it 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,564
NGUNS!! Part of the Furniture
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NGUNS!! Part of the Furniture
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,564 |
Simon, this is not a "witchhunt". Yes, some people disagreed or questioned the move, but they didn't do so aggressively. Then Boshly moved in and tried to assert himself, and that's when people, including me, thought it became quite aggressive and in-crowdish, oldboys club, or whatever you want to call it.
You consider this aggressive? Dress it how you like, it reads as it reads. Simon has never been anything other than ultra fair in all aspects of this forum. Your post comes across as disrespectful. I felt the post was disrespectful in its scarcasm to Simon; who I know doesn't respond in many cases where others might. I pointed this out. Simon, this is not a "witchhunt"...
I also tend to feel that this has evolved into a witch hunt though I fully acknowledge that many have a genuine concern that they would like more info on. For clarity I know Blake has had issues and has aired them before where I actually praised and acknowledged his very reasoned post. His post here was again respectful and informative and within the rules of the site. My only comment was that maybe he could convey Pandy's post (which I felt a fair reflection) in a constructive manner to Kevin who he obviously knows well. As for the respect earnt, I'm not sure how one earns respect on a forum? As far as I am aware judge me when you meet me (I do the same - I simply comment on other people's posts though I'm sure there is a blurring of lines sometimes). My post count was in response to the posters query "who are you" and Simons comment that maybe people should/could join in more constructively elsewhere before 'stirring the pot' (my words). But anyhow you interpret as you please. I am more than happy for the people who have met me to judge me rather than an angry 'keyboard warrior' as I'm afraid you seem to come across. I have seen enough of life thank you, to know that TM is not the be all and end all. I say things as I see them, always have, always will. More than happy to agree to disagree where necessary and where debates are polite respectful and reasonable. But I WILL jump down on any post where I feel threats or unnecessary comments are made that are beyond what we are prepared to accommodate. I will also defend (where appropriate) any TM member who I feel is being unfairly harassed as you are well aware. Finally as for my relationship with the factory Simon sums it up perfectly: I find the entire affair quite saddening and a complete and utter waste of time. The only 'fiscal stake' any of us have in MMC is that we 'invest' in the company by buying their products (like EVERY other customer). I do, personally (Brian, Andy and John are capable of speaking for themselves), happen to like and respect very many people who work at the factory and I have, and will continue, to defend their work ethic, passion and skill for what they do. It is very easy to criticise people you do not know but more challenging once you actually see the drive, determination and true desire to produce the best product they possibly can. I am also lucky to call a few of them friends and this came about primarily because of the Nordkapp Challenge - something I am very proud of being a part of. As before, many on this site will know that I have championed their cause with MMC when I did believe they were being treated unfairly by any element of the Morgan network; therefore, I do not agree with your belief that I am incapable of seeing both sides and being fair. I don't think there is anything new there.
Cheers
BtG
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 870
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 870 |
Now, I may be wrong, Simon, but just because people disagreed with the decision you made, that doesn't make it a witch hunt No, but in my opinion personal attacks do. I work on the premise that I would never say anything to anyone online that I would be unwilling to say to their face. I have not attacked anyone personally, nor will I. You were the first person to attack people by more than implying that their opinions didn't matter because they were new to this forum and/or had few posts. You did so because you read tthe first few posts as "attacks" on your decision, even though they were quite fair, and most were simply trying to make sense of it. And let me once again remind you, that you were the one who allowed people to respond to the decision. Secondly, you quote Boshly to me in your responses. Andy (Boshly) is his own man and writes as he sees fit. No, I didn't quote him, I mentioned him, because his posts were the reason you got the responses you quoted to me.Whilst he is a moderator of this site, I do not tell him how to feel, what to think or what to say. Like everyone else on Talk Morgan he is entitled to this opinion and some of those I agree with, some of them I do not. Confusing the two of us, or blurring the line between what we say/mean, is wrong in my opinion. I am not confusing anything or anyone. His posts were crucial in steering the discussion in the direction it did, and crucially, they illicited the responses you now refer to as part of the "witch hunt". Furthermore, as per my initial comment, PaulJ made sweeping statements, which were directed at this site and myself; therefore, my comments stand - this is now less about an issue some owners are unhappy with and more about attempting to cast aspersions on certain members of this site (myself included). Seriously, Simon, you need to calm down. You allowed people to respond and ponder a decision you made. Of course not all will agree. What made this discussion really bad was Boshly's attempt to bully people into submission, and basing his misplaced defense on your post regarding people's post count. As I see it, the thing you did wrong was crying foul because people responded to the decision in the very thread you allowed them to do. As for the discussion in this thread as a whole, Boshly exacerbated this by his attempt to shut down discussion because he knew you and you're not a bad person (noone said you were, but that's Boshly for you).
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 870
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 870 |
You consider this aggressive? Dress it how you like, it reads as it reads. Simon has never been anything other than ultra fair in all aspects of this forum. Your post comes across as disrespectful. I felt the post was disrespectful in its scarcasm to Simon; who I know doesn't respond in many cases where others might. I pointed this out Yes, and you employed the usual tactics of trying the "defense" of "I know him, he's a good guy" - not even considering that he may be wrong - not necessarily with the decision, but how he perceived the comments. Simon, this is not a "witchhunt"...
I also tend to feel that this has evolved into a witch hunt though I fully acknowledge that many have a genuine concern that they would like more info on. Seriously, after seeing your tactics surface once again, you're not one to cry foul. As for the respect earnt, I'm not sure how one earns respect on a forum? As far as I am aware judge me when you meet me (I do the same - I simply comment on other people's posts though I'm sure there is a blurring of lines sometimes). I'm sorry you don't feel that respect can be earned simply because the interactions happen electronically - yet at the same time try to get one over me by mentioning I'm a journalist (i.e. in the physical world). It get's even better, because you repeat this: My post count was in response to the posters query "who are you" and Simons comment that maybe people should/could join in more constructively elsewhere before 'stirring the pot' (my words). But anyhow you interpret as you please. I am more than happy for the people who have met me to judge me rather than an angry 'keyboard warrior' as I'm afraid you seem to come across. Oh, the irony is thick with this one. I have seen enough of life thank you, to know that TM is not the be all and end all. Good for you. Maybe you should act like it. I say things as I see them, always have, always will. And so do others. Perhaps you should take this as a much needed lesson: You're entitled to an opinion, but you're not entitled to stop others from having their own opinion. More than happy to agree to disagree where necessary and where debates are polite respectful and reasonable. But I WILL jump down on any post where I feel threats or unnecessary comments are made that are beyond what we are prepared to accommodate. Yes, on more than one occassion you have shown yourself to be more than willing to attempt shut down any discussion because you happen to know one of the parties, and since you know them, you're entitled to, and are of course always right. I will also defend (where appropriate) any TM member who I feel is being unfairly harassed as you are well aware. See above.
Last edited by AQM; 09/09/13 11:51 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,723 Likes: 149
Member of the Inner Circle
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Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,723 Likes: 149 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_(Internet) What is happening here is making me very sad. I have no other way to express it. I believe that enough has now been said and that all concerned should make no further replies to this thread. I came in very late on this and have been reading the thread out of curiosity. Please note that I am not commenting on anyone or any particular post. I just think enough is enough  If someone wishes they can easily start another thread on the technical issues.
Peter
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,213
Has a lot to Say!
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Has a lot to Say!
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,213 |
Hugh
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,653 Likes: 4
Charter Member
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Charter Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,653 Likes: 4 |
Martin (Deano)
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,461
Has a lot to Say!
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Has a lot to Say!
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,461 |
It seems to me entirely unreasonable that Kevin Rivette is now denied any access to this forum. The technical points he made in the post that began this thread were interesting and important. I can understand, as I have previously stated, why his post was deleted but to ban further interventions from him seems to me draconian. And apparently, it goes further than that...
Of course, I do not know "the other side of the story", if there is one, but Mr Rivette's knowledge could well be useful to 3 Wheeler owners and to the Morgan Motor Company. Now he is not only banned from posting comments, he cannot even read posts in the site. He has been made an "unperson", as in the old Soviet Union.
A private explanation to him about why, in the understandable view of the site owners, parts of his post were considered unacceptable, perhaps putting him on some kind of informal "probation", would have been a better response. Was that approach tried?
Viewing this matter as an apparently unwanted 'outsider', I would say that the most immoderate person here is one of the moderators, who seems to have what these days are politely termed "personality issues".
Last edited by P Dron; 09/09/13 03:03 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,054 Likes: 18
Talk Morgan Expert
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Talk Morgan Expert
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,054 Likes: 18 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_(Internet) What is happening here is making me very sad. I have no other way to express it. I believe that enough has now been said and that all concerned should make no further replies to this thread. I came in very late on this and have been reading the thread out of curiosity. Please note that I am not commenting on anyone or any particular post. I just think enough is enough  If someone wishes they can easily start another thread on the technical issues. Well said Peter. I entirely agree. C'mon chaps - put this behind you and move on.
Regards Alan AP08 MOG 2016 Plus 4 GDi - Mazda Soul Red Metallic
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 836 Likes: 1
TM Photographer of 2008 Talk Morgan Regular
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TM Photographer of 2008 Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 836 Likes: 1 |
Could it be possible for the technical information only to be re-posted ? Even just to show to existing and potential new owners that there is a fix coming for the bump steer. I posted a link to the website of the Company which has purportedly achieved an engineering solution to the bumpsteer issue earlier in this thread. An explanation of the issues involved can be found there.
Ken
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