Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 Things are looking up...

The suggested set up I got was 1.5 degree negative camber and 8 degrees castor. The rod ends were almost fully in, just 1 turn out, to get close to these figures, a good starting point. Check that the rod ends are a snug fit in the alloy block, with shims if required, so that the rod ends are nipped when the bolts are torqued up without distorting the alloy block. The suspension movement should be on the rod ends and not rotating on the bolts. I also needed some spacer washers for the chassis mounts of the alloy blocks as the chassis tolerances were not consistent but hat may just be my car.

To expand on Dab's response...

The Empire kit corrects the length of upper A-arm to the length of the tie rod. Puts them in basically the same arc during suspension travel.

This is the missing key in the Comfort Kit...unless you correct the upper A-arm length, they (tie rod and upper A-arm) aren't swinging in the same arc...granted the Comfort Kit hedges it closer to being right by elevating the end of the tie rod but is no where near arriving at really being right.

Aside from fixing the A-arm/tie rod length issues, the big plus to the Empire kit is adjustable castor and camber. With "fixed" components as delivered, if you have a geometry issue, you just live with it or start replacing parts that may net the same or different geometry issues. With only having the ability to adjust toe, every welded component would have to be absolutely perfect for the geometry to work out on every car...and I'm yet to find anything perfect on the car. If you don't have any geometry issues, you are just one good pothole away from having them.

Before starting the Empire install on mine, I measures castor & camber from side to side and they were not the same. Too bad, too sad with the stock bits as all you can adjust is toe. When installing the Empire kit, everything is out of kilter during the process but that brings it into the realm of a normal car where it is all adjustable so no biggie.

I received some rough (conservative) recommendations for the geometry after the Empire install but I am deviating from that slightly. I want less castor than recommended (4 degrees vs. 8 degrees). I don't want over-whelming stability at the sacrifice of nimble driving...not that 4 degrees is extreme any way. I suspect very little of my driving time will be near "the ton" so I'm shooting for my improvements on the lower end of the scale. I'm going to run 1 degree camber for now but will play with it more once I go to stiffer side-wall Blockley tires up front. For toe, I'm going to use 1/32" toe-in initially which when everything settles in at speed should be close to zero toe (while just barely rolling, apply your brakes sharply while watching the control arms on the driver's side to see the flex).

To me, the Comfort Kit was the cheapest way for Morgan to doctor up the bump-steer/geometry issues (which should have been evident to them from 50 yards away) without really fixing the geometry issues/root cause. Morgan certainly didn't go above and beyond to correct a known issue. On this side of the pond, we call that a Band-Aid.

It appears the M3Ws are "kit cars" that are 90% complete upon delivery and it has been dumped in our laps to figure out how to complete the balance of cars on our own. At least that is how I am coming to terms with it. Thank goodness for Paul and Empire with the steering correction kit...hopefully they will do equally as well on compensator and bevel box upgrades.

These cars remind me of a story a woman told me one time. It was a decade or so ago when she and her husband were raising ostriches and emus commercially. I asked her what it was like raising the big birds and she said, "There are 99 different ways for these birds to kill themselves and you have to figure out all the ways before the birds do". Sounds familiar.

Z

Nadvys....

At the risk of picking at a scab....why are you pulling your top-end down? It sure looks fun but was wondering what your motivation was/is? Prevention is worth a pound of cure...hopefully.

TIA,

Z

Nadvys....

At the risk of picking at a scab....why are you pulling your top-end down? It sure looks fun but was wondering what your motivation was/is? Prevention is worth a pound of cure...hopefully.

TIA,

Z

[/quote]

I had the same thoughts but didn't want to ask.

Hi Planenut, I too cannot achieve the magic 8 deg. of castor but 3.5 on one side and 4 on the other but just about managed to find 1.5 deg. of negative camber.

To finish the job properly I think Bill at Empire needs to produce a pair of lower wishbones with rod ends on the ends.

And finally, I just wonder what he could do with a bare chassis re. weight saving, considering the quality of workmanship and materials used on the front end kit.

"And finally, I just wonder what he could do with a bare chassis re. weight saving, considering the quality of workmanship and materials used on the front end kit."


I suspect it would have carbon Kevlar bodywork, and the chassis would be round tube fully triangulated.

Bill used to hillclimb a mean Trike, [ie a single front wheel] and there is a picture in his workshop of him on his Trike with the wheels off the ground as he flies off a small rise.

He has also got a commission to build a really modern trike for a customer, but this will not get done whilst he is still building leading edge single seaters, with F1 aerodynamic technology. See Racecar Engineering magazine this month, where they have done a 5 page feature on him and his cars.

If a write off M3W ever becomes available, I would be very tempted to buy it and let Bill rebuild it to his own specs.

@ Zackybilly

waiting for new valve and spring before having all parts together again..and hopefully a working engine.

Good new
Soon on the road

Lo-tech setup but I just needed more...and wanted it square.

Took .125" off the face (.010-.015" at a time due to the weak setup) of the right rear heim joint position. I lacked a little getting my camber right. Not sure if the OEM brackets are welded in properly on the frame or not as the other side of the car has plenty of extra adjustment in either direction. Either way, no big deal.

Actually, I'm enjoying fiddling with the car's front-end now that I can have some influence over it. If it wasn't dialed in right from the factory, all I could do is bitch about Morgan...now, if it isn't dialed in correctly, I have no one to look to but myself.





It's painted now and will go back on tonight after work. For those of you who are going to be dialing yours in, a small Allen wrench (L-shaped)is your friend to get the pesky, second spacer in position for the bolt to stab though.

Z

There's a lot to be said for having that control. It just shouldn't be having to happen!!