Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 M3W 2014 model.. How is yours

Has anyone out there had the opportunity to compare the handling and feel of the improved 2014 model vs any M3W with the Empire front suspension kit installed?

The deafening silence means that no-one has done this yet John, although there are several people who have added the Empire kit to 2013 models already fitted with the 'comfort' kit.

Essentially, the front suspension of the pre '14 cars is misbehaving in two ways. Because either the ride height was raised after initial prototype evaluation, or they just plain got it wrong, the steering arms and track rod ends are fitted too low on the uprights, meaning they slope downwards, this then translates into excessive toe movement every time the suspension moves up and down, this gives the dreaded bump steer that earlier cars are so well known and loved for.

There are two other problems, which still persist on the 2014 cars too, one is that the top wishbone is not pivoted in the correct place, giving camber change, which is annoying but not as dangerous as the bump steer, and the final problem concerns the offset of the axle. Ideally the upright angle should exactly bisect the centre of the tyre at ground level, on our cars, it is about 2" inside the edge of the tyre. this will result in small amounts of kickback through the wheel, which some people may interpret as 'chattering'

The camber change can be addressed with the Empire front wishbone kit, which uses a billet aluminium bracket, boleted into the existing wishbone mounting points, and a shorter wishbone, utilising adjustable spherical joints. A by product of this arrangement is that camber and castor can be adjusted to give a perfect setup, although I'm not sure the perfect setup has been found yet, as people are still experimenting.

It is very easy to see this working statically by bouncing the front of the car up and down, and watching the front wheels move. With the Empire kit fitted, either with the Morgan 'Comfort' kit or the Empire designed risers, no toe or camber change is apparent or even measurable, though sadly it is too expensive to re-align the angle of the upright, so the steering wheel will continue to chatter, though this is not really a problem and does not seem to affect roadholding or handling in any way.

There may be others with direct experience of the kit, who may like to add to my take on the subject.

Thanks Paul! After staring at a photo of the front end of a M3W for a bit and doing some searching online, I think I understand most of what you're saying. Pictures of double wishbone suspensions often show unequal A arm lengths with the upper being shorter, its pivot point located outboard of the lower and the upright tilted inward at the top. In the Morgan photo the chassis mounts of upper and lower arms appear vertically aligned and the "vertical" is only a bit off vertical, pointing 2" inboard of the tire as you noted. The Empire kit appears to move the upper pivot point outboard through the aluminum bracket and shorter A arm. Am I on the right track here? Ha. Pun.

I wonder, while looking at the photo, if Morgan made the geometry choice it did because of appearance - it looks more like the sliding pillar suspension on the original M3Ws.

John, you have grasped the principals very well, 10/10 and top of the class!

I also think you are right about the design of the upright being made to look like the origianl sliding pillar of old. It is a point made occasionally, that Morgan employs more stylists than engineers. Whether this is actually true or not is open to debate?

Woo Hoo! Now I can wire a sign to my fence as an automotive engineer. Style is important but it shouldn't make promises that the engineering can't keep.

When the whole issue of bump steer became public I was told by someone who should know that this is absolutely the case.

It's not quite as simple as just being the appearance being the cause of the bump steer .

Now my car has the new chassis and the revised uprights it looks the same but has no bump steer ......

That, I'm sure, is a great improvement but it is a workable compromise that does not resolve some of the basic design problems. PaulJ's summary of the design issues above is 100% correct.

The so called comfort kit is obviously a satisfactory solution for most people but a complete redesign of the front end would be required to make it as near to perfect as possible.

Thank you Peter, but isn't it a shame that no-one from the factory can be bothered to come on and give us a bit of background to it. I'm sure there is more there than meets the eye, after all, they are not idiots in the factory, even if most of them are 'designers' and not engineers. It's all such basic stuff and I know they would be insulted if they thought we really felt they didn't know there was a problem.

Or go back to the known, understood and effective sliding pillar system, perhaps?