Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 M3W Clutch Problems

-----and maybe a Centa at the same time?

My clutch problem is the opposite of slipping. It does not release with the pedal fully depressed. The problem evidenced as a balky shifting into first and reverse. These are classic symptoms of a clutch not releasing. This symptom developed over time and was adjusted once by the dealer to improve shifting. By 2000 mi and out of warranty, it basically could not be shifted into reverse with the engine running. After discussing with another M3W owner, I decided to first bleed the clutch hydraulic lines to check for air. Big mistake! Opening the valued let out a lot of fluid indicting that the system was pressurized and the throw-out must have been preloaded. Manually moving more fluid out gave no air. Now minus the previously preloaded clutch the transmission cannot be shifted into any gear.
Has anyone had this clutch problem? What should be done? I assume it is the slave cylinder self-adjuster that is responsible for the preloading? So far the shifting has not returned to its original poor but better than now state. Should I be doing a lot of clutch pedal pumping? If it were to return to prior bad state, I would adjust the clutch pedal stop giving more movement of the master cylinder. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I have tried to purchase a Mazda Miata (assuming that is what the transmission and clutch is) shop manual or a Haynes manual for adjustment advice but can’t yet find a version for later models (2013 and later) on line.
I’m about to take this to an independent Miata mechanic but still wonder if I could adjust it myself.

Sounds to me like there is air in the system....

Possibly a master cylinder issue but...I had a similar problem after my chassis was changed out; turned out that the earlier cars had a clutch over travel stop on the pedal box and the later ones had it in with the clutch. When the chassis was changed, a new pedal box was fitted to suit it which left me without an over travel stop and it was then only a matter of time before the clutch failed with the sort of symptoms you describe. Might need some detective work to suss out which parts you do or do not have fitted to yours but if it has only done 2000 miles and this is the problem then it would have been a problem fitted at the factory.
Best of luck with it.

I have not looked into the M3W clutch system in detail but most manual clutches work the same. Has your clutch pedal got a few mm of free play when fully off before it starts to pressurise? I sounds as if it is not coming fully off and opening the port in the master cylinder to the reservoir. This port should depressurise the system with the pedal fully released, there should be no pressure in the system with the clutch pedal released, no "preload". As you depress the clutch pedal, the reservoir master cylinder port is closed off first and then the system pressurises and moves the slave cylinder to release the clutch. There is an adjustment for free play on the master cylinder push rod. If that fails check the master cylinder for an internal fault before getting into the clutch, much easier and cheaper. I hope that helps.

If you suspect air/bleeding is the problem, something that works on both hydraulic clutches and brakes is to sidestep the pedal at maximum depression when bleeding, so it comes up with a bang.

I had to use the trick most recently with a TD5 Defender which had the master cylinder replaced under guarantee and symptoms much as you describe. The dealer had returned the vehicle to me patently not right, I fixed it, and when I complained I had to do work to make it drivable - offered to take it back for more bleeding. But rather pointless as I had made it clear, I'd done the job they should have done!

I'd have hoped any time served mechanic would be aware that bleeding some hydraulic systems is a bit of a fight and to know the various tricks that can be used. Evidently not!

Thanks everyone. I'm glad to hear the consensus on more bleeding needed and on maybe a master cylinder problem. The pressure and preload might indeed be adjustment needed in the master but I have also heard that that slave cylinder has a check valve that could do similar things. However, presumably a slave cylinder problem is big repair bill since it is internal to the bell housing. I'm going to take a spare master cylinder to a Miata specially shop where I hope they will work on the car and confirm that this is just an adjustment or master cylinder problem. I have heard that this clutch is not a standard Miata clutch but a high performance type.

the clutch is not comparable to that of Mazda, on the tw it measures 181mm in diameter and is reinforced type, clutch lining is bonded to a thin metallic ring before riveting and lightened flywheel steel racing type the clutch mechanism is also racing type lightened with an aluminum frame and a cast iron platter, the tw clutch is not skating to play, being very light it quickly warms up and the flywheel is slightly degraded very quickly too .
The principle of the clutch FUNCTIONING is the meme that the brake pads, has energy transform heat into

Yes I have learned that the release mechanism at the pressure plate is a racing type annular hydraulic bearing. The service I will have done in a local shop will presumably determine if the problem is air, the master cylinder or the annular bearing (or some combination). Ultimately a clutch hydraulic system is basically quite a simple mechanism. However my fingers are crossed that the bearing is not the fault as that repair requires engine removal. Not so simple. The short 2000 mile usage hopefully predicts a simple problem.

New update on the clutch releasing problem. For the convenience of not sending the car to the city of the dealer, I found a local mechanic shop that services and race preps Masda Miatas. I figured that they would be familiar with the transmission and clutch. They determined that there was no air in the hydraulics. Using a borescope they found that the master cylinder and the hydraulic throwout bearing were working properly. So it is now scheduled for engine out troubleshooting of the pressure plate and clutch plate. Stay tuned.