Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Remember our Brave Boys

It's a nice jingoistic assertion and fits alongside comments like "the NHS is the envy of the world" or "we lead the world in wind power".
But is it really true? Certainly most commentators regards the performance in Iraq as a failure, and the Yank forces simply didnt want ours there in the first place. Regarded them as a liability.
Seems to me sometimes that we are good at self delusion

Well said dmat.

Howard: "we lead the world in wind power"?? Did one of our Westminster numpties say that? Perhaps, if we're talking about baked beans

Cheers,

There can't be anything delusional about wanting to be in the services, volunteering and then being sent by (yes, some Westminster Numpties, past and present) out to that barren land knowing that your number could be up any time. These lads and lassies do it willingly and sadly too many pay the highest price. That's all we need to remember in the interim and think of, or pray for, them.

Right!As I can see it's only me here who has been professional soldier and fought in Afghanistan.Well... it was in 1981-1983,and different army ,but same country, same djihadists and similar courses,Dmat, even words the same, nothing new to me.It's not a point of view from different side ,it's point of view from different time.As a counter sniper and special operation officer I sent to Allah some of his warriors, made them unable to shoot at our boys now.TIME....Who can expect I finish my military courier as a British mercenary?Who expect that the British officer who trained my enemies will take my place,and the one who got away from me will kill him?Everything change. Or nothing change,if my 19 year's old countrymen dying in same place and I hear the same words?THINK!What was you saying about me in 1981, when I was fighting in Afghanistan... remember?Do you really understand what is going on?Does anybody understand what I am talking about? REMEMBER OUR BOY'S!!!!.Or as Russians says: TAKE THEY PLACE!! Any volunteers?I done my bit.In different TIME...

My statements are far from being "jingoistic" and delusional.

As a country we are second to none at putting ourselves down.

We would do well to adopt America's sense of national pride and patriotism (as well as their equipment).

To go back to what I said in my previous post.

Let me ask you a question to put things into context.

Say you are unlucky enough to be sent to Afghanistan and even more unlucky to be taken prisoner.

Who would you rather came to rescue you?

American special forces or our SAS? I would opt for Hereford's finest everytime - pretty much a no brainer.

Despite all the pressures put on them over the years the British Armed Forces remain highly motivated, disciplined and professional.

Liability. Think the reverse much more likely to be the case. Anyone remember friendly fire?

I don't think anyone would claim that the "NHS was the envy of the world" but do remember that there are very few other health care systems that are free at the point of use.

With the NHS I fear that many people will not realise it's true value until it's been destroyed beyond recognition.

I must say that I agree strongly with your sentiments Robert, I have had a close family member in the Army and I was most impressed with the sheer professional and motivation shown during both his training and his time in the forces and yes, he did see active sevice in Northern Ireland and was invalided out of the Army.

In WW1 the expression "lions led by donkeys" was used to describe the leadership of the British Generals (donkeys) of their troops (lions) who were sent to their deaths by incompetent leaders.

What has changed now is that it is the political leaders who are the "donkeys" and have let our brave boys, and the nation, down by not equipping them properly for the war they are being asked to fight. As I've said before it is quite scandalous and really unacceptable.



Again I've had personal experience of the NHS having had a chronic health problem some years ago and consequently, I have had a long and continuing exposure to the NHS. I cannot praise the individuals in it enough and I just wish that all of us could show the same engagement to our own work that the vast majority in the NHS show. Most of the health professionals in my personal experience have a vocation and should be applauded for the work they do on our behalf.

Marion recently has had a nasty accident and again her own experience of the NHS accords with mine. I know which type of hospital I would want to go into if I had something seriously wrong with me.

Lastly, before finishing what must sound like a rant, but is really just something heartfelt, let me say that I really found Yuri's post very apposite. If that is not a cry for an end to all war (I know we won't change the base side of human nature) I don't know what is. I think on that note I had better head off to bed.

Yuri,



And the funny thing is that I did my military service around the same time, being trained in fighting you guys... I'm glad we all have moved on.

I am very much on the same wavelength Brian!

I had forgotten about the 'lions lead by donkeys' analogy.

How apt it is even nowadays as you say in reference to the 'leadership' that the military receive from their political masters.

It could equally be applied to their management of the NHS. From where I stand the vocation and goodwill upon which the NHS depended has been eroded to such an extent in recent years that moral is now at an all time low. In years gone by the managers were there to provide clinicians with what was needed to properly provide the service. However the axis has now swung such that the NHS managers feel that they control the clinicians. The goalposts have been moved from sensible prioritisation and quality to a time and numbers driven approach - namely a blinkered approach to waiting times.

I find your experience of the NHS heartening and believe that it is not an uncommon one.

On a personal note I wish your wife Marion a speedy and full recovery from her accident.

Finally I echo your comments regarding Yuri's post.

/rant on

Being the son of a life serving RAF pilot I have to agree about the commimtment, focus and sheer determination of the people involved in both vocations.

My father flew helicopters and was posted to Belfast twice during times I could remember as a child. I cannot say it was pleasant. The people were pleasant and none of them wanted to be in the middle of a poor situation. The forces had no axe to grind with either side on a personal or professional level however the situation became ignorant and ugly, probably causing the escalation that led to so many deaths. He hated each and every day and said they had no place in that problem. For every soldier there are usually 4 or 5 others suffering mental torture waiting for them to come home, or something else. I say that without meaning to neglect the people who live under the conditions imposed on them by the situation.

I believe the lions and donkeys model is now different. I know people attending officer training and I would employ them happily. They have to be smart in many ways for the new military. The question is who gives them orders, and in turn who gives them orders. Politics cannot understand Force, it is oil and water.

I work a lot with the NHS and am proud of the fact there are still people involved who have a real drive to do something good. We go out of our way to enable them and wreck our profit on most of the deals in order to contribute to a service often milked by vendors. Paul Duffy of the Belfast Health and Social Care Trust (the largest trust in all of the UK and NI) is one of the most pro-active IT directors I have ever worked with. They have won 6 awards in the last two years for the project and have shown private sector hospitals the way it should be done. Yet we don't hear about this.

When did the press stop promoting good examples, reporting on leadership that works and creating an environment that people entering the workplace really aspire to. Instead I watch the new generation becoming more apathetic by the day.

Good news is out there and it is only in our own personal actions that we can make a change to the situation. I think we should have an open season on politicians rather like game but then I have a biased opinion

/damn my soapbox appears to have collapsed.
/rant off

When Staff Sergeant Andrew McFarlane heard his eighth comrade had died in 24 hours he decided to put pen to paper.

After almost 27 years in the Territorial Army and three international tours he's grown accustomed to attending vigils to remember the dead - but never so many in such a short period of time.

It took Andrew, who serves with the Adjutant General's Corps, less than an hour to write the six verses that are now circulating across the world after his wife put them on her Facebook page.

Speaking from Camp Bastion before the memorial service on Monday he said: "As you can imagine it's a subdued atmosphere tonight. I've been to vigils before but there are just too many happening at the moment.

Sunset Vigil

The news is spread far and wide
Another comrade has sadly died
A sunset vigil upon the sand
As a soldier leaves this foreign land

We stand alone, and yet as one
In the fading light of a setting sun
We've all gathered to say goodbye
To our fallen comrade who's set to fly

The eulogy's read about their life
Sometimes with words from pals or wife
We all know when the CO's done
What kind of soldier they'd become

The padre then calls us all to pray
The bugler has Last Post to play
The cannon roars and belches flame
We will recall, with pride, their name

A minute's silence stood in place
As tears roll down the hardest face
Deafening silence fills the air
With each of us in personal prayer

Reveille sounds and the parade is done
The hero remembered, forgotten by none
They leave to start the journey back
In a coffin draped in the Union Jack