Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms ARP4 Hand Brake

Time for me to pile in too! Haven't taken delivery of my AR yet but I've had the chance to take it for a spin (absolutely loved it) and of course...to check the handbrake. It failed the 'can I push it with the handbrake on?' test. So to my mind it's clear beyond doubt that with this issue being so prevalent amongst such a small production run of cars, this is a design fault. As such, the obligation is on MMC not the dealer to rectify the problem. The dealer acts only as our intermediary.

If any car hits the road with a handbrake that fails the MOT requirements it is not something that any owner needs to consider compromising on or rectifying himself. We all know that we can control cars via the clutch and accelerator and we AR owners now understand that we can increase 'the hold' of the handbrake via the simple expedient of using the footbrake first - but these points are entirely irrelevant. Though some owners may consider themselves competent and ingenious enough to be able to fathom out some kind of solution, it is not their obligation to do so. Indeed I would have thought that there may be some concern here re breaching the terms of the warranty and certainly were there to be an accident due to a faulty handbrake MMC could rightly argue that they were not liable as there had been an intervening act that broke what is known as the chain of causation - meaning that whoever touched the brake last is at fault.

It gets more complicated: Now that we know there's a problem with the handbrake should we even be driving the cars? I know as well as anyone how hard it's going to be to refrain from the temptation of taking the new toy for a whizz round the block but irrespective of how slight a risk one might think we are taking, the fact is that were there to be a handbrake related accident we are at fault for using the car in the knowledge of the pre-existing problem.

Now motoring law/product liability is not my field but as a lawyer I consider myself competent enough to highlight some potential issues here and would conclude with the advice that ARP4 owners need to consider the possible legal pitfalls of driving a car that we know would not pass an MOT test and realise that what we really need to do is not try and fix it ourselves; not try and use the clutch/footplate as a fail safe; not just put up with it as a quirk of this particular type of car, but instead, we should collectively impress upon both dealers and MMC that this is an issue that needs to be resolved pronto. It is their problem not ours. I sense a product recall on the horizon.

Bob,
Although I'm not one of the ARP4 owners, your words of wisdom sound correct. Why in hell should any purchaser of any car let alone a £60.000.00 sports car put up with such a basic fault.
Morgan should hold their collective hand up, admit there is a problem and fix pronto with a product recall.
We are all too ready to put up with the many faults that our cars have just because they are fun but this one goes way beyond "they all do that sir".

Nobody has mentioned the serious matter of no Insurance if you drive the car knowing it to have faulty brakes. Plus I could see a case being made for a charge of Reckless Driving which could easily come into the frame if you were involved in an accident. The penalties for which could be very upsetting to say the least.

If I were lucky enough to afford one it would be back on a trailer to MMC saying fix it or "Not fit for purpose"

Firstly I feel the disappointment for you guys buying a very exclusive exciting car that appears to be unroadworthy in the eyes of the law.

Surely as in the case of the 4/4 Speedster they should be withdrawn from sale (or recalled) if they have a non functioning handbrake, it begs the question were these cars Type Approved under the +4 general banner and not in their own right.

I sincerely hope the MMC takes this seriously and as a bare minimum notifies you as to their intentions reference the solution and a loan car whilst they resolve the design error.

I didn't mean the handbrake will improve, but that the car gets better to drive generally, nor did I mean that it wasn't a problem to be taken lightly, but that we, as experienced drivers can get around the problem until it is fixed, which it will have to be, even if it means changing the rear calipers. As mentioned the Golf ones work superbly, I have a set on a kitcar, and it will lock the rears at 50 mph.

Bob does make some very good points, but having had experience of the way in which Morgan have dealt [or not dealt, actually] with the Three Wheeler problems, including posibly catastrophic bump steer, I think they will consider this handbrake issue to be of minor importance and if we want to drive the cars this summer, we will all have to take a view, as lawyers like to say. I sincerely hope this is not the case, but we are not dealing with a normal company here.

Simon, sorry I meant to say Sifab, but got a little confused between yourself and Peter..

Has anyone seen/heard what Morgan are going to do? All very well moaning, and it's justified, while the first port of call on anything bought is the dealer/seller, they ought be approaching Morgan PDQ.

Fact of the matter is though, the problem has arisen due to the fact of the fashionable rear discs. If you drive in such a way on the road as to need them on a light car, then you're not going to keep your driving licence long. Even on a race car discs are of debatable use, unless you are into long races.

I have no doubt that this issue should be the subject of an immediate factory recall. 'Handbuilt Quirks' are one thing, safety is in an entirely different category.

If it is a design fault then it begs the question as to how it got through development and testing. The difficulties being experienced by our colleagues in Europe regarding Type Approval suggest that the Plus 4 has been used as the reference, but then the vehicle modified at the factory - modifications that appear to have resulted in safety issues (and to be fair challenge the criteria of Type Approval - different wheels, tyres, brakes etc).

If Morgan (or their sub-divisions) are prepared to release such vehicles to customers, it begs the question as to what they actually think of their customers.....and indeed their safety. And the dealers should not be releasing a car that fails a PDI to a customer (no matter how keen they are to take delivery) - in releasing a car in a faulty state they implicate themselves. But perhaps the PDI doesn't include a 'road test"....

Not even those with 'enthusiast tinted spectacles' should be expected to accept this situation....and for the sake of their own insurance validity should not attempt to try and make good the issue on behalf of MMC.

If I had shelled out 60+k for this car (and I would have dearly loved to) I would now be sitting in someone's inbox. For MMC's sake let us hope that none of the ARP4's have made their way over the Atlantic.....

This goes back to my previous comments: this problem must exist on the demonstrator so why has it not been addressed. Or if it has, why has it not been read across to production.

Cross reference this thread with the 'Morgan for under £30K' thread then you'll know why not!!!!!!!
I'm not one for saying I told you so, but……………….
I made the point that the cars ARE rubbish, many realists seem to agree, they just are!
It may have been possible to get away with such catastrophic oversight in the past but the modern motoring enthusiast, who's just shelled out £60K, has every right to be demanding immediate resolution.
You just can't laugh something like this off with a "they all do that sir".

COME ON MORGAN, FOR F*CKS SAKE GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER, WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU PLAYING AT!!!!!!!!

This whole thing has tremendous ramifications for most European owners. If I understand correctly all modifications in Germany require TUV approval. In Italy just changing the tyre size requires a "letter of no objection" from the factory and an inspection. If this is not available a complicated system requiring expensive engineers certificates and inspection is required. The other alternative is a later CoC and homologation for the same type of car.

I believe these problems dictated no left hand drive versions of the Plus 4 SS. Those that have been registered in Europe are registered as standard Plus 4 cars and the conversions to LHD were done by the dealers.

I hope these issues get sorted out for the European owners.