Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Rear Oil Seal / Sump / Kent (Crossflow)

Hi there,

Ever since I've had the car there has been a bit of oil around the rear of the engine (lower part) and on to the gear box. Easily cleans off etc.

Recently I removed the starter motor to check it (oil it) and noticed some old oil residue inside the bell housing to which the starter motor bolts (not a lot - thin layer to scrape off). It was old and "tar-ish". I don't know when it was last removed and cleaned (if ever on the latter!) and it's 40 years old.

After my last long run (750+ miles) there was a bit more oil than normal (no surprise give the length of the run). Engine oil level was the same/barely changed if at all.

Tonight I've checked all accessible bolts and had a good look underneath. Nothing was loose (sump bolts etc.) that were accessible. The source of the leak appears to be from the sump against the bell housing and/or around the rear oil seal.

But I cannot see for sure!

I'm not sure if I can remove the sump without removing the bell housing. Does anybody know? I suspect there's some hidden bolts.

That said if I did need to separate the engine and bell housing how easy is this? Can it be done without fully removing the engine?

It's a very small leak, but I'd like to get it right!

Cheers,

R.

You can separate the engine and the gearbox by tilting the engine up but I'm not sure how far forward this will get you without removing the clutch for which you will have to take the engine out. Had you thought of deploying a USB camera probe through the starter motor aperture?

I hadn't thought of the camera idea - perhaps a simple mirror might help?

Does it smell and feel like engine oil or gearbox oil?

You don't need to tilt the engine to separate the bellhousing enough from the engine to get the sump off. You'll need some longer bolts, and you'll need to cut the adaptor plate and file the edges smooth of the now two piece adaptor plate.

I think the bolts are UNF, but just remove one bellhousing to engine bolt and use it as a sample to buy some longer ones. Hint - fully threaded bolts are called set screws, or they are in the UK.

With the adaptor plate removed (in two bits), the sump will come off.

If you ever come across a genuine Ford Sport sump - buy it! Baffles that work and not the silly homemade ones that some engines have. You might need the matching oil pickup, they do differ through the life of that engine.

Engine (crankshaft) oil seal though is an engine out job, the above is in the hope the offender is the sump gasket. Beware of overtightening the sump, as the new gasket will also fail!

I believe it's engine oil. Tool "black" for the gearbox oil. I also checked the gearbox oil level and it was still flush with the fill plug so it was unchanged (and still clean).

I've been thinking about Martyn's response and think it might be best this time to take the engine out.

I am looking in to a hoist and engine stand (local motor-factor has 20% off now and reasonable priced kit).

So I assume after removing the bonnet:

1. Drain the coolant/oil and remove coolant hoses and heater valve cable
2. Remove oil gauge pipe
3. Remove coil leads/distributor lead from coil
4. Remove clutch and accelerator cables
5. Remove engine mounts (after hoist attached)
6. Remove fuel line to fuel pump
7. Remove earth cables
8. Remove exhaust manifold
9. Remove temp sender lead and disconnect starter and alternator leads

Now should I undo the bell housing and leave this in situ (at least at first) or remove the bell housing from the gear box?

This way I can be sure the minor leak is fixed properly, learn some more and perhaps clean up the engine a little whilst it's out.

Anything else I should (or shouldn't) be doing if I go down this route?

Oh what fun!

I guess then I could take the opportunity to change the gear box seals etc. and refit this on the new mount I've had in the tool box for a while.

Bellhousing may be part of the gearbox, not sure of the date it changed. Even if not, you have to slightly twist the engine on removal.

Taking the engine out is easy, but I never found it easy to get the gearbox on to it when reassembling, despite carefully aligning the clutch (I have a tool too). After ages fiddling, it used to just pop on as if to say, 'fooled you'.

Hire fees for a hoist are high. Mine has long paid for itself, and I've even lent it to a mate. So yes, bite the bullet and buy a hoist! Mine was even pressed into service to take a freezer out of a Landrover.

But, the method I detailed is easy and doesn't take very long once you have the bolts. A sump or a sump gasket change only really requires a bit of care in cutting the plate. I'm fairly sure the whole job only took about two hours.

Thanks as ever Martyn for the great input.

I did take a look last night at the adapter plate idea and may well make this mod with the engine out of the car. However since it's now 40 years old it is probably worth removing and checking properly. At least then I know it is done.

Memorys fading but i dont think the bell housing can be removed from the gearbox untill it is separated from the engine backplate.