Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Who's was this ARP4 ?

I may have missed something but it seems to me that none of the ARP4's that have been part exchanged by their original owners have power steering. Swapping for a roadster gets you...power steering! Makes such a difference.

The v6 3.7 demo car I drove at the factory TM visit was such powerful power steering it had no feel to the front wheels - I had no idea where they were ! The green godess power steering is very heavy but you can tell where the wheels are !

"I too was initially tempted by the Cossie idea and the look of the car. But the drive I had as a passenger put me right off it - not for me!Mind you the way Mark Evans (from the factory) drove it had a lot to do with that conclusion!Scared me silly - and thats not easy to do!!!

BUT over 120mph over the Malvern common..!! scared shocked2"

I can't help but think that Mark Evans drove that way to mask the lack of low end power, if so it certainly worked because eveyone who has reported back after a ride with him has commented on how fast/scary it was.

power steering was an option on the ARP4

Exactly my point. Some chose to spec with power steering and some without. Unless I'm mistaken (in which case I'm sure I'll be corrected), the only ARP4's that have been sold on by their original owners are those that were spec'd without power steering. Now I know that some owners spec'd without p/str because that's exactly what they wanted and knew how the car would drive, but I'll bet there's others who spec'd without and realised that for them this was a mistake. Hence switch to a Roadster which as we all know has power steering as standard.

As to engine power and performance I really can't see why some would appear to believe that a 2 litre engine would compare to a 3.7 - albeit a Cosworth 2 litre. Surely the comparison should be against a standard plus 4 engine not as against a 3.7? The ARP4 is a souped up plus 4 and clearly outperforms the standard Plus 4 with regard to both power and agility. Comparing to a roadster is to use the wrong comparable.

For the record, when I spec'd my ARP4 I was unsure about whether to opt for the power steering or not. My previous Morgans (Plus 4 and Plus 8) were fine without it, so why spend an extra £2000? Anyway, I went and drove the demonstrator which was not power assisted and concluded that it was unnecessary. My reasons for trading the ARP4 in had nothing to do with the steering - that was fine.
Whilst waiting for my Roadster to be built I had the loan of a 3.7 Roadster which had power steering. I was unimpressed and didn't like the vagueness. However, I was happy to wait until my car arrived and then form a view based on how my car handled. Interestingly, a few years ago power steering was an option on the Roadster - it is now standard.
Anyway, when I got my car, and had quite a few long distance trips in it, I was not happy with the steering. It was ok (obviously!) when parking it, or manoeuvring at low speed, but who buys a Morgan to drive around a car park all day?!
My clear recollection of driving my previous Morgans was that once you were on the road the steering became alive, responsive and provided much better feed back on what the front wheels were doing, and just where they were on the turn in. I felt that, with the power steering as fitted by the factory, I would not wish to drive the car aggressively on roads I was unfamiliar with, as I would not feel in total control. I am used to driving cars fast, on and off the track, and consider myself to be a competent driver at speed. The power steering on the Roadster was not conducive to this style of driving, IMHO.
So, I started asking questions of those who might have an answer to my question - Is there any way of improving the feedback? Some suggested checking the castor and camber on my car - not always set up as it should be even though it was a new car. I did this and it was as it should be. Some suggested different springs and suspension set-ups. One suggested getting a spotty teenager who could re-chip the control unit to the steering box to give it more weighting!
However, my main concern was that whereas most other cars which I have owned, including our current Cooper S and Audi Allroad, have had speed weighted assistance. In other words, the faster the speed the heavier the feel and feedback from the power steering. I was told (I knew it anyway) that even small hatchbacks like a Fiesta or Fiat Punto have such systems. Why therefore did the Morgan power steering not behave in the same way? Was it that the factory opted for the cheapest off the shelf system available just to appease those who struggled to park their cars? If so, why not retain the power assistance as an option as opposed to making it a standard fixture?
Whilst at TOTH this year I was still asking the same question of the many experts present. Some said to remove the power assistance altogether, which didn't seem such a bad idea. I spoke to Williams Morgans at the event as I was also interested in perhaps having the Suplex conversion to the front of my car with adjustable shocks, brake reaction bars and a Panhard rod fitted. By pure coincidence, they had a 3.7 Roadster at the event which was for sale and which had these modifications already carried out. So, I arranged with them to go and drive this car during the following week. Much more interesting, was the fact that this car did not have power steering as well.
On the following Tuesday I went and drove this car. Well, it was a revelation. The car handled beautifully, much better than my own, but, importantly, the steering was fantastic. Much better feedback such that you could throw it into corners with confidence and without fear of not knowing what the front wheels were up to!
So, I immediately booked my Roadster in to have the power steering taken off, Suplex put on to the front, Panhard rod fitted, adjustable shocks on the rear and brake reaction bars. In other words, I asked them to make my car exactly as the one I had driven, including adding a sports exhaust.
Incidentally, this Roadster is still for sale at Williams and if anyone our there is looking for a fantstic 3.7 Roadster then you will struggle to find a better one at the price, IMHO.
I have now driven over 1000 miles since the work was carried out. I am over the moon with the difference these mods have made, particularly the steering.
Taking note of Madmax's comment on his power steering, I take it that his was an after market conversion? I have seen the ads in Miscellany for a hydraulic power steering system, which may have the weighting adjustment for speed which the factory fitted system does not seem to have, or maybe it just does not work properly. I don't know, really. What I do know is that, for me and my car, not anyone else's car or experience, the removal of the power assistance returns the car to what it always was meant to be - a proper driver's car, a sports car born out of the fifties. And, what may one ask, is wrong with that?
Happy days!

I'm not sure who said that the lack of power steering on the ARP4 spoiled it, but Bob appears to have picked up on that as the main reason why a couple of the cars have been changed early in their life, even though rid967 and MR11MOG have both specifically said it was noise and lack of low end grunt in their cases, nor do I think anyone has tried to compare the lack of torque of the Cosworth Duratec to the 3.7, only that the extra torque would be welcome. We are all car enthusiasts here with experience of many different types of car and engine over the years and know what we want, and if one owner thinks it's fun changing gear and another does not, then neither is wrong, more that it is horses for courses, and the fact that no-one could drive the car before placing an order was not helpful either.

As it happens, I think that my previous P4 GDi had more mid range than the ARP4, and that is a direct comparison.

Surmising about why people change, even though they have explicitly said why, does rather muddy the water, and whilst the poster may have a point, it is in a different conversation.

Actually, it is a bit like having a minor disagreement with my wife, who, cleverly, brings all sorts of other topics into the discussion, none of which are directly relevant to what we are talking about, but are all important in their own right. Is that female logic at work?

I guess Morgan employees must have a special, no fine, no loss of licence, deal with the local

"..Actually, it is a bit like having a minor disagreement with my wife, who, cleverly, brings all sorts of other topics into the discussion, none of which are directly relevant to what we are talking about, but are all important in their own right. Is that female logic at work?"
________

Yes it is!! A gift (?) they seem to have ..."and another thing" _________________

Maybe??

BUT when I next saw Mark he sheepishly told me that he had wrapped his Roadster around a local lampost