Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) 4/4 1.6 modification question

Hi all,

Have seen a couple of 4/4's listed online which state either 1.6 ECU Upgrade or 1.6 Throttle Bodies under the engine section, both state that the output is around 160bhp.

Can anyone here comment on the cost for these upgrades, which of the two is the better option and is it worth it?

I ask, as it looks like a +4 would be the car for me due to the 2.0 engine, but I prefer the narrow look of the 4/4, I would like a little more power though than the standard 1.6 provides,

Obviously at the same time, the 4/4 is slightly cheaper than the +4.

Any thoughts gratefully appreciated and apologies for the slightly rambling post!

Rylan

Howdy Rylan,

It's a fair point and one that most modern Morgan owners go through before choosing & paying. You're not alone, anyway!

I would advise that you take some time to actually drive a nice example of each and sit back with a pint and make a list..

I'm a 4/4 owner, and came via the M3W route. I drove loads before I stumbled upon this one, and when I did I knew it was the one I'd be happy with. There is a lot in it when people say the car chooses you and not the other way round..

Regarding the power, you'd have to be very picky to decide on power outputs alone. If you want power, go for a V6. The issue there is that both the P4 and the 4/4 use that beautiful Mazda gearbox whereas the V6 doesn't have that slickness and that put me off.

The modern P4 uses the Ford GDi engine, and isn't as easily or readily tuneable. It produces a smidgeon more power and torque and is generally bought by people who aren't that bothered about doing anything like this, but still enjoy the experience. It also has a fractionally wider track by virtue of it's wheels, and is thus slightly wider in the wings.

The body tub is identical now on all the trads so interior width is the same too, not withstanding gearbox tunnel differences.

The 4/4 for me, is exactly what I believe the Morgan should be: Light, flickable and revvy. Standard engine is the Ford Sigma with VVT and a host of tuning potential.

It's an easy stage to achieve around 20 to 25 bhp more through better breathing and a slightly richer ECU remap to suit. The next stage is generally throttle bodies, but there is a pay off in terms of torque despite the excitement they bring..!

People such as Wolf Performance and Williams all have products that provide tuning kit, and long may that be so..!!

The standard car isn't a slouch, either. It revs like a nutter and having done a foreign trip in the company of two P4's and a Roadster V6 it certainly didn't feel like I was the odd one out.

The decider for me was the right colour and options at the right time. It was newer than I'd been looking at, but I have no regrets whatsoever at almost 6000 miles in 8 months..

Hope this is of some use.

I would add that I've written this as a predominantly solo driver. If you are the driver who nearly always drives with a passenger, I wouldn't hesitate to compromise and go for a V6. Your passenger isn't going to appreciate your efforts with swinging the car to and fro along with playing the gearbox, I'd guess they would prefer the limo style of power surfeit that the Mustang engine brings..!!

Also thanks from me Steve for this answer, i was struggeling with the same question. I think i will have a look at a standard 4/4 to start with. I see that there are enough options to bring it to a higher performance if the standard 115 bhp would be not enough after a while.

@Rylan: good luck in finding the right car for you!

Thanks Steve for the well written and informative reply,

I have driven a few cars, unfortunately the one that I did really love was sold before I was in a position to buy it, maybe it didn't help that it was a 75th anniversary 4/4 with the 2.0 litre engine as I potentially would have had the best of both worlds?

May well have to give a 1.6 another try and see how it feels.

I do agree on the gearbox front, the Mazda box is the one for me, my budget doesn't stretch as far as a roadster, it really is a hard choice to make between a 4/4 and a +4, although I do admit that the 4/4 just looks 'right' to me, especially if it is in dark blue!

@Dax, thanks, hopefully things will work out soon enough!

Rylan

At Williams we have spent alot of time developing ecu map and throttle body kit for the Sigma engine.

We have almost completed a Sigma induction kit with ITG.

We have also developed a full exhaust system.

We can also offer engine builds

This is the well proven engine we built fot Henry to use in the Morgan Aero Challenge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCtrEFmTAJs

Email or message me for ideas and costings.

Hi Rylan, how about a narrow bodied, or rather narrow winged, plus 4 then? Should suit your requirements

Well this is only me, my 4/4 Sigma is my fiifth Mog after three Roadsters and a Plus4 Super Sport since 11 years. I own her since 2 years and have done almost 27.000 km at that time. She is a keeper. Some mods are inevitable but the fun is to grow with the mods. Don't order her with all the mods done. My gap of experience is the standard Plus4 and the narrow body Plus 4, certainly great cars .Give them also a test drive as others recommend as well.
But for me the lightweight of the Sigma engine as well as the consecutive lightweight well balanced package it really a joy.
After changing for a sports manifold I have experienced and tested a bit with the intake. Next step will be to change the final gear ratio and do some other mods which are minor. Start with brake reaction bars (cheap and effective) and an urgent advice, change the standard tyres against different make but keep the same narrow dimensions.

This sounds like the standard 4/4 is not drivable, no...the opposite is the truth. My personal experience is that I had to mature before I could say the 4/4 is my choice.
The funny thing is that because of the lightweight even a slight increase in power is immediately to feel. I.e. swapping the standard air filter against a K&N type. After all the feel of this narrow car is very enjoyable

This is a Wonder World. The UK and Europe are lucky to have such sweet Morgans. 160HP in a 4/4? In North America We do not have these Morgans and likely not to get them. The V6 Roadster is about it. But We do have an old 4/4 with a Dual Cam Lotus/Ford that can add excitement or an old +4 S.S. It is an interesting journey with Morgan.

I also came to my 4/4 vis the M3W route. The plus 4 does have more power but tips the scales quite a bit more than the 4/4 hence the need for the power. Take a look at the performance figures, very close.

In fairness the 4/4 needs more gog swapping but with such a great zingy engine and wonderful gearbox it adds greatly to the experiance.

Ok 110bhp doesnt sound much. However i have never found it to be lacking, at least not since the miles have passed 2500 or so. I know its a bit OTT but i keep a log of my Morgan journeys and looking back over it the car really has been getting more flexable and faster as the miles have mounted.

So regarding power i'd not modify and spend lots of hard earned cash until its been withyou for some time as the standard car really isnt lacking in oomph. Dont judge the power until its clocked up a few miles however, from new they are very tight!

Factor in the light weight engine that gives it great handling and thinner wheels for chuckability you really do get what is a proper back to basic sports car with all the thrills that brings.

the other huge advantage, for me anyway, you can have lots of hard driving, gog swapping, sweet revving engine fun and still get over 40mpg. Its not an eco car we buy for saving petrol but its a great benefit all the same. There is very little cost penalty for driving it hard. ( apart from speed cameras)

I will endorse everything said above. The difference of a sigma with 7000 miles on the clock compared to new is unbelievable. One of the cheapest things for a power gain is fill up with 98 octane - you'll be surprised what that does!

Start with the low cost mods and see what that does and then work you're way along the list if you need to.

As well as the 44mpg enjoy the cheap servicing and road tax costs too - it's the most fun with your clothes on!