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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943 |
Vesconite seems like the best. At least, so far, I feel it is the best. Hardchrome King Pins with a thicker coating of chrome would help. I use 1" Hydraulic Rod and the chrome coat is very thin. Not an engineer, but from what I read water is the best lubricant for Vesconite. It was designed to operate in Water. But how does one meter water into a Vesconite system. I have some ideas but wonder how many gallons of water it will take to drive 300 miles. Is there a water based lubricant?
Also the Factory and Dealers need to get on board if Vesconite is to be used. The experience with Devol tells Me that it was impossible to get the Employees to follow simple instructions. Thus Devol failed. The Mfg Rep that represented Vesconite were not much help. Actually the Big Guy at Vesconite called Me. But He liked to talk and not sure He listened. Actually think He was trying to find out how many bushes Morgan Inc. would buy. When I told Him I think He lost interest.
Further the Bronze Bushes and Chrome Pins that Peter Mulberry developed and I think MSC copied are pretty damn good.
If the Owners would install gaiters and seals I think it would be as good as it gets. Next time You are out in Your Morgan, go for a drive on a twisty back road. It will remind You just how good Morgan handles.
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,333 Likes: 18
Has a lot to Say!
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Has a lot to Say!
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,333 Likes: 18 |
On a basic level, friction results in wear.
Grease reduces friction, unfortunately the Morgan design doesn't allow the grease to remain in place but it does allows dirt and moisture to enter the bearing surfaces.
Vesconite has a lower co efficient of friction than bronze and is also self-lubricating.
Other synthetic materials are available.
As Morgan seem reluctant to change the fundamental design of the front suspension they could at least better engineer it to increase longevity and reduce maintenance.
Yes - Quite agree. Solving this weak and sticky point would see the trad owner seeking to upgrade. Instead of which MMC dabble into marketing trinkets, bells and baubles. Expensive designer watches is not what a heritage motor company should be engaged in.
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,333 Likes: 18
Has a lot to Say!
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Has a lot to Say!
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,333 Likes: 18 |
If the Morgan factory does do away with kingpins as has been suggested, what are we going to discuss on Talk Morgan then!
Arwyn Back to louvers obviously +1 -- Brogues & Ever-right or Never-wrong brand Watches
Last edited by Moggo; 02/07/17 06:46 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 391 Likes: 5
Learner Plates Off!
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Learner Plates Off!
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 391 Likes: 5 |
from what I read water is the best lubricant for Vesconite. It was designed to operate in Water. But how does one meter water into a Vesconite system. I have some ideas but wonder how many gallons of water it will take to drive 300 miles. Is there a water based lubricant? Google for "water based lubricant" and you will find plenty of them, though intended for an entirely different purpose. 
"this means the end of the horse-drawn Zeppelin!" - N Seagoon
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943 |
from what I read water is the best lubricant for Vesconite. It was designed to operate in Water. But how does one meter water into a Vesconite system. I have some ideas but wonder how many gallons of water it will take to drive 300 miles. Is there a water based lubricant? Google for "water based lubricant" and you will find plenty of them, though intended for an entirely different purpose. Hmmm! I wonder if I should choose "Lulu" or Cherry Flavored"?
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,639 Likes: 20
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,639 Likes: 20 |
This a problem with Vesconite and Devol. I install grease seals top and bottom of axle tube to reduce this harmful grit/paste. It works to a degree I think. Also the Gaiter's are a help. But I can find some damage to My Hard Chromed KP's if I look thru a magnifying glass. Where You live and drive is also an issue. Texas, not good. Western Washington, better still not really good. Eastern Washington and Oregon, terrible!
Just been watching Winfried Flugsand classic movie and there is a scene in there that evokes my irrational gaiter phobia. When the car bottoms it exposes a lot of pin. If there was a gaiter attached to the stub the rebound spring would be dragged up the pin by the gaiter. Normally the spring wear on the pin is confined to the bottom of the pin but with a gaiter hugging the spring the spring would be taken to new heights. It wouldn’t take much for the tough steel spring to rub off the thou or so of hard chrome surface on a chromed pin. Might this be the damage you see through your magnifying glass?
Roger 2011 Plus 4
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943 |
This a problem with Vesconite and Devol. I install grease seals top and bottom of axle tube to reduce this harmful grit/paste. It works to a degree I think. Also the Gaiter's are a help. But I can find some damage to My Hard Chromed KP's if I look thru a magnifying glass. Where You live and drive is also an issue. Texas, not good. Western Washington, better still not really good. Eastern Washington and Oregon, terrible!
Just been watching Winfried Flugsand classic movie and there is a scene in there that evokes my irrational gaiter phobia. When the car bottoms it exposes a lot of pin. If there was a gaiter attached to the stub the rebound spring would be dragged up the pin by the gaiter. Normally the spring wear on the pin is confined to the bottom of the pin but with a gaiter hugging the spring the spring would be taken to new heights. It wouldn’t take much for the tough steel spring to rub off the thou or so of hard chrome surface on a chromed pin. Might this be the damage you see through your magnifying glass? No the damage is where the bush rubs the KP. Problem was the Dust Cover broke off and allowed dirt and grit in the system. Now new Dust Covers, New Pins and New Seals. So far so good. But the "Lesson Learned" is plastic bushes pick up grit and turn into a file. Also the chrome coating on "Hard Chrome" pins is extremely thin. This is not a "Fix and Forget" system. I also have found out that there are at least 2 grades of Hydraulic Rod (I use for KP's). One Grade has a "Case Hardened" coat under the Chrome and the other does not. Actually "Induction Hardened". The damaged KP's did not have "Hardened" steel under the Chrome.
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
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Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,871 Likes: 168 |
I think we just have to accept that kingpins are a service item.
With fastidious care, their life will be prolonged, but in the end, the high loading on the bottom bush and hostile environment will win.
DaveW '05 Red Roadster S1 '16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,607 Likes: 14
Part of the Furniture
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Part of the Furniture
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,607 Likes: 14 |
Dave W, I'm pleased you said that. It makes me feel better for not greasing them as often as I should. I think we just have to accept that kingpins are a service item.
With fastidious care, their life will be prolonged, but in the end, the high loading on the bottom bush and hostile environment will win.
Steve A11OGE Red 1989 4/4 4 seater
'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,871 Likes: 168
Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
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Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,871 Likes: 168 |
Just don't leave them too long Steve.
They've had cases at BHM which have not been done for 8,000 miles and the pins are, well, 'worn'............
DaveW '05 Red Roadster S1 '16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
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