Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 Engine Oil for M3W

Haven't got my car yet (although it's built and I've seen it) so haven't seen the manual. But if it's similar to the manual for the Aero 8 that I do have, it's not had too much time and effort spent on it, and is unlikely to go into much detail on oil alternatives and extra running-in precautions!

As far as I know the Morgan 3W standard is to have an oil and filter change at the 1000 miles service, but nothing before... (I might be wrong!!)

Obviously, what Jeff from S&S says makes sense, [and isn't it nice that he has taken the time to come on here and advise us?] as HD stuff is easy to get hold of, if not exactly terrifice value for money, I changed my oil and filter at 300 miles and used HD V Twin 20/50 and an HD screw on filter, and will have another change at around 1000-1200 miles. The oil that came out looked as clean as a whistle, but then again, microscopic bits of metal and other cr4p wouldn't necesarily show up to the naked eye, and I feel better knowing the oil is new, especially when you consider that this is what cools the engine [other than air of course.]

I have fitted an oil temperature guage to mine, and it is interesting to note that the temperature will fluctuate quite widely between 40c. to 65c. over quite short periods. I haven't had to run in heavy traffic yet, so don't know what it would go up to without airflow to the cylinders.

Interestingly, my Caterham 260 Duratec runs at around 80c. to 100c. and being watercooled, with an inline oil to water intercooler, is pretty consistant, so the Mog is running quite a lot cooler than a standard, but tuned, 4 cylinder water cooled engine.

I'm not sure what 'V Twin' oil does that standard oil doesn't do though? Anybody know?

My thinking is that if the oil filter is doing its job and the oil looks clean as a whistle after 350 miles or so, then the oil probably does not need to be changed. If there isn't anything clinging to the sump plug then chances are not much swarf has been generated. Don't know much about S & S but I'm sure they're well engineered and made.

A high reading of 65 C is extremely low isn't it? The oil temperature on modern engines would be about 90 - 105 C without any problems and that's on a thinner oil. Where are you measuring the temperature - in the engine or in the tank? I would expect the temperature in the tank to vary a lot more than in the engine as there is clearly some temperature management going on (eg. shutting down ignition at higher temperatures).

I'm not questioning what experts are saying about needing all these oil changes, but I can't say I understand why they are necessary and the cost and waste of all this oil is a bit daft if it's essentially about being cautious.

What did Charles M do on his recent 3000 miles dash across US. I'm sure he didn't change the oil?

Oddly enough, I would expect the S & S engine to work with pretty much any oil given there is such a lot of it, and it is not exactly dealing with high revs, much power, torque, weight or revs. Even piston speeds are not especially high given the low rev limit.

Having said that, I have no real expertise in this field, just a bit surprised. If it were a bike engine revving to 16,000 rpm and developing 150 bhp per litre I would take a different view!!

wiscos, its not a matter of visually looking clean, its a matter of getting out the extremely small contaminates which will be in your filter along with within the oil. Modern engine manufacturing has limited the amount of metal bits and contaminates which will be found in the engine, but it still happens during manufacturing.

The very early oil change (50 miles) is done because it allows for some of the things that get knocked lose from early use of the engine to be removed. The next oil change (500 miles) is to do the very same thing as the first in which it is to remove some of the early contaminates from the oil that weren't removed in the first oil change.

Subsequent oil changes later in the life of the vehicle have more to do with lubrication and the lifespan of additives in the oil.

Ultimately, you have to make your own decision on whether you will follow the recommendations of the engineers who designed and built the engine or not. It is in the companies best interest to have their engines last many years into the future, which is why they set forth instructions on how to make it happen.

Linked from S&S Facebook page as per previous oil conversation.
http://www.facebook.com/notes/ss-cycle-inc/motor-break-in-recommendation/420391233414

Re: the temperature, I should have made it clearer, that whilst it does look on the low side at face value, it is taken with an external sender tie-wrapped to the underside of the oil tank. I suspect that the oiltemp. in the tank isn't too far off what is actually shown, but it will naturally be hotter in the motor itself. The real reason for having this is that it is easy to install, doesn't need any holes drilled and is useful for comparison purposes, more than outright evaluation of the oil temperature. It may be interesting to tie-wrap the sender to somewhere on the engine itself to see what the difference is.

Have bought a couple of S & S filters over the phone from Matt's Machine Shop, and 6 litres of Mobil 1 V Twin oil which is pricey at over £80.

Have also sourced a Valvoline (H-D suitable) refined 20W / 50 mineral oil at about £35 for 5 litres of the right spec.

After discussions with S & S engine specialists and seeing what others are doing I will change oil and filter at about 300 miles ie. once before the 1,000 mile change although this is not recommended as being necessary by Morgan or the Morgan dealers I've consulted. I'll use the Valvoline for this as it's not going to be in there for long and is the correct spec and much cheaper than others I've seen so far. Will use the Mobil for the 1,000 mile change.

The oil capacity of the M3W is pretty high so the degradation of the oil will be less than on most bikes, and temperature fluctuations should also be less because of the sheer mass of oil as long as idling is not excessive. Hence my conclusion that 1 change before 1,000 miles is (hopefully) more than sufficient.

That sounds sensible, it's better, if a bit more expensive, to change the oil too often than not enough, and it's an easy enough job.

Hi Folks - how much oil do we put in the new M3W? And how do we check in the Oil Reservoir whether its at the right level?
Have been using the indicator stick on the Reservoir cap but this seems to be over full??
Please advise - thanks heaps Barnesy

Welcome to TM

Run the engine to scavenge the oil back to the tank. Turn the engine off and let things settle for a couple of minutes and then check the oil level with the dipstick in the cap in your case, or the two level indicator plates inside the tank on later cars. Don't check the level a few hours or more after the engine has run or you may get a false level as the oil can drain back from the tank into the sump.

If it is overfull, drain some oil from the tank or suck it out with a syringe. It's not good to run overfull, particularly with early oil tanks that have been known to split.

Thanks that is a great help as my Oil Reservoir Tank did SPLIT at one of the end welds!!! Good warning to others.
(PS Mine is a 2013 Model M3W)
Cheers Barnesy