Talk Morgan Forums Community Vehicle Talk (non-Morgan) Vintage look Electric motorbike/cycle

I am not a great fan of derailleur gears. I am quite pleased that our e-bikes use the Enviolo Nuvinci system.

Hi, I have just acquired a Rayvolt Cruzer (google it)
:-)

I think the Ruffian and the Revolt look better not having a fake motor.

TBH I'd feel rather ridiculous riding a bike with a fake motor on it.

But if it had a loudspeaker emitting authentic noises? 🤔

That is an interesting new gear system. I wonder where its efficiency and weight fits in compared to other planet gear systems like the Rohloff or Shimano Planet systems. It looks more like a CVT gearbox than a planet gearbox.

It does lack the range of the others, it is 380%, compared to Shimano planet gears at 409% and Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 with 526%. But the interesting thing is my old mountain bike had a range of 655% and my new one only 500% as manufacturers are changing derailleur systems for less range by having less front chain rings while planet systems like Rohloff have increased their range.

The specs don't show the weight, so can't compare it to the others, the Shimano planet gears hub weighs 1665grams, Rohloff weighs 1958g. That is just the hub, you still need brakes, pedals, cranks etc. The group set on my road bike (derailleurs, hubs, crank set, brakes and shifters) weighs 1741g for everything. (The whole bike is only 7kg)

Also comparing efficiency generally a clean well setup derailleur is 98% compared to between 85% and 95% for a planet gear system depending on which gear they are in. Having said that I expect most derailleur bikes in peoples sheds are probably only 80% efficient due to no maintenance.

I see the main disadvantage of derailleurs gears is the maintenance required and adjusting is not as simple as people think. I certainly would recommend planet style gears to anyone who doesn't enjoy cleaning and adjusting mechanical things. My dad took his bike to a shop for a tuneup and was complaining to me it still feels odd changing gears. I have a jig that can check the straightness of a derailleur, I used it on his bike which showed it was off so I adjusted it and he said the difference was like chalk and cheese. I bought it from a bike shop and all good shops should have one, they are just too lazy to use it.

Here is a link to a new setup that is supposed to be 99% efficient. https://newatlas.com/ceramicspeed-driven-shaft-drive/55364/

I am happy with derailleurs but then I have all the special tools to fix them and the knowledge, plus happy to spend an hour or so each week cleaning and adjusting my bikes to perfection. But I do think the days of the derailleur are limited with new systems being developed all the time.

Plus really most people just want to ride and not play with bikes, just like most people want to drive cars and not fettle with them. All my friend have black rims because they look cleaner with no work where I have polished aluminium that I polish up to look nice, but I expect a lot of people on this forum will understand cleaning mechanical things just to see their face in it

I had always wondered how some of the CVT stuffed worked and that is an excellent video explaining it. I imagine the car CVT's are different due to torque load?
Thanks for sharing that.

I must admit I have been waiting for the electric cars to have start to offer more than one gear. Given the peak torque is at low RPM I expected that they would be more efficient in that range and so the vendors would want to keep them operating in that space. Is it a trade off between simplicity and also being able to handle the torque load ?
Are they more efficient or did I make a false assumption ? (again)

You might be right but then this car never reached production.

http://www.morgan-motor.com/mmc/carrange/pluse/plusemorgan.html#!prettyPhoto/0/

Maybe an electric Morgan in the future will be nothing like this but click on the description and there are a few important sentences I have copied.

“We wanted to see how much fun you can have in an electric sportscar, so we have built one to help us find out,” explained Morgan operations director Steve Morris. “The Plus E combines Morgan’s traditional look with high-technology construction and a powertrain that delivers substantial torque instantly at any speed. With the manual gearbox to increase both touring range and driver involvement, it will be a fantastic car to drive.”

When the clutch pedal is pressed, electronic controls automatically match motor revs to the output shaft speed to ensure a perfect change.

“A multi-speed transmission allows the motor to spend more time operating in its sweet spot, where it uses energy more efficiently, particularly at high road speeds,” explained Zytek Automotive managing director Neil Heslington. “It also allows us to provide lower gearing for rapid acceleration and will make the car more engaging for keen drivers.”

The programme will deliver two engineering concept vehicles. The first, with the five-speed manual box and Liion batteries, will be used for preliminary engineering assessment while the second will be closer to potential production specification, with alternative battery technologies and possibly a sequential gearbox.

I like the first and third but not the second and fourth. Maybe I am odd but I think one of the greatest joys driving a car is a nice toe and heel downshift that matched revs perfectly that I did rather than some computer. So I don't want sequential and I don't want electronic controls automatically matching motor revs. If I get it wrong I don't want it hidden, if getting it wrong is not obviously bad what is the satisfaction of doing a perfect toe and heel change yourself?

I have been told a Morgan is uncompromising and you change your driving style to suit it, surely that is the charm?

Is that what a DAF had?

Here is a video which gives a more in depth explanation and shows that you can also get reverse.



According to the manufacturers electric vehicles are one of their target markets.
https://www.fallbrooktech.com/nuvinci-technology/