Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Non start Plus 8

My car is a 2000 3.9 Plus 8. It's been standing over the Winter 'til the beginning of February but I've run it up to temperature frequently. When I last tried, it failed to start even though the engine was turning over well. There's no spark and everything is dead up to and including the distributor except the starter circuit. My local garage can't sort it and I haven't a clue myself. Anybody got any ideas?

I have a 94 +8 with the 3.9 engine although mine is Hotwire yours will be the GEMs system. First port of call from my thoughts would be checking the fuses in the ignition circuit, are there any other electrical components not working?

I guess the local garage would hopefully checked the fuses, then perhaps the immobiliser operation, though have to admit to knowing close to nothing about that. Though as ever GoMoG is the first port of call..?

https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/GEMS/GEMSbyPoole.pdf

You say everything except the starter circuit is dead. Do you really mean that, ie lights etc also not working but the starter is working

Or do you only mean the ignition circuit is dead?

Check you are getting oil pressure. The plus 8 won't fire up under a certain pressure.

Sorry this is not correct , the changeover from Hotwire to GEMS was 2002/3. Dave's car will also be Hotwire (14 CUX)

Right here would be my tips:-

1 Fuel pump relay . When you switch on the ignition can you hear a low "whirring" sound from the rear of the car which cuts out after a few seconds. If yes go to number 2 , if no then this is your answer. The fuel pump relay allows current to the high pressure fuel pump which is an in-tank unit. If there is no current the pump won't run and pressurise the fuel rail, and the ecu won't allow the engine to start.
The relay is located in that tangle of wiring under the dashboard. Can't remember the wiring colours by heart but I think one is back/purple? Replacing the relay is the only option. Quite cheap and very easy job , even diy. Make sure you label it so it can be located easily next time (and there will be a next time, so order 2 and carry a spare)

2 If the pump is running then check that the inertia switch has not been accidentally depressed, if so just reset it and all will be well. If not then go to 3

3 Check the ignition module. This a small black plastic unit looking bit like a relay. It is mounted on the n/s inner valence just behind the radiator. This can fail and is a cheap and easy replacement. Not sure how you would check except to ensure you are getting good sparks on every cylinder. Might be an idea to replace it anyway , they are cheap and have been known to fail. While you have the plugs out turn the engine over until you register oil pressure on the gauge (unless that is also dead?) This will eliminate the possibility that the ecu is stopping the engine from firing , but personally I doubt this will be the cause.

4 If all of the above fail then it possibly time to get some diagnostics done, unfortunately the Rover V8 engine is pre-OBD2 so the common code readers won't work , you need someone with the old Rovercom system. Perhaps an old Land/Range Rover specialist near you.

Good luck and let us know how you progress

Just concentrating on ignition related items

My understanding is that the immobiliser plip and 10AS immobiliser can often be a bit of a problem and some perseverance to keep plipping to deactivate the immobiliser is sometimes required.

To fire the ignition the ecu uses a signal from the crankshaft position sensor. A faulty sensor, or dodgy connection, would cause a failure to start.

When you turn the ignition on do you hear the fuel pump run for approx 4 seconds ? If not it may be that the immobiliser is still 'on'.

I don't know how long you turned the engine over to check for ignition, could be worth cranking it for a while in case the GEMS delays both the ignition and fuel to allow the oil pressure to raise before starting. The hotwire just delays the fuelling, but the GEMS ecu also has control of ignition and may also delay that. (the hotwire engines have distributors, the GEMS engines use coil packs)

Other items

Some of the non ignition related failure points can be a dodgy fuel pump relay, faulty (or displaced) fuel pump fuse, and the inertia switch under the bonnet is activated or the leads to the switch have come loose.

I have a Gems car. My Autel Maxiscan OBD works fine with it.
Try the simple things first.
Check the cut out switch hasn’t been bumped accidentally. Try to start.
Does your Engine management light come on when plipper is used and ignition turned with your key?If not try a new battery in it. Do you have a spare plipper?
Next, if these appear ok can you hear the fuel pump when turning the key to first position?
From here it changes to checking fuses/relays.
If these are ok it gets more complex and a compatible OBD unit (or specialist Rover/Landrover) garage should be able to source fault codes.
Are you in the AA or similar with home help? Try them if you are.
The Gems (and earlier Hotwire) systems get signals from many sensors and the ignition module is a good first bet, possibly MAF, and crank position sensor too.
As Ray said earlier low oil pressure could be the cause, especially on a car that has been idle. The oil might have drained from the pump and repriming needed. How often have you run the engine when the car has been laid up?

You tell us that the spark side of things is dead. Mention was made of the distributor, so I believe that the car will have the Hotwire fuel system.

Good points regarding the fuel relay. There are two similar relays side by side on the under-dashboard side of the bulkhead. Suggest you replace both,(they lift up from their holders) and buy some good quality spares as Andy G suggested.

When I had a no-start situation with my Hotwire I replaced coil, ignition amp and plug leads, all to no avail. I eventually found a large fuse in its own holder under passenger side of the dashboard near the glovebox. I replaced this and all was well.

Good luck and please keep us posted, it's how we learn.

Andrew Green
Glorious Devon
was Hotwire Plus 8
now Gems Plus 8

Another thought , Mike is correct. The immobiliser system can (and does) play up sometimes, in order to eliminate this remove the fuse in that governs this circuit . It is in the main fuse box which is above the transmission tunnel (and requires some athletic agility to reach while lying in the footwell of the car!)