Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) 1969 4/4 no start

As a bit of a distraction from more serious matters - what would be your plan in this situation.

I have a 1969 4/4 (Ford cross flow with mechanical fuel pump). It's been in a dry-ish lockup for the last 2 months. When I went to start it yesterday:

the engine turned freely and the battery was well charged (able to crank intermittently for at least 60 seconds - I had a jump start backup battery too)
the engine did not fire at all
no smell of petrol at the carb
I have not filled up since last year, but the petrol in the tank smelt okay. I tried again with the fuel filler cap removed in case a vacumn was forming in the tnk.

I removed the input fuel pipe to the fuel pump. This seemed to be bone dry.

As I had limited tools (ie none!) I stopped there.

Do mechanical pumps just fail when they are not used?
Is it possible the fuel tank outlet become blocked - that seems unlikely when it was just sitting there.
How good is the mechanical pump at dry priming itself ? (If I leave the car standing for more than 1-2 weeks it always takes 30 secs of cranking to reprime the pump and put petrol back in the carb)...

It's a bit inconvenient being in a lockup 2 miles away, so what would you do next ?

Fuel pump not expensive and easy to fit (30 mins) so given your situation I'd suggest replacing it. Have a good set of jump leads with you in case installed battery runs out of oomph.

Doubtless someone who knows the working of fuel pump better will advise more on it's working. I think there is a diaphragm that I suppose could fail (modern fuels ....).

Stay safe

Does the mechanical lift pump not have a manually operated lever underneath? If so operate until the lever feels dead, i.e. fuel lines filled. Removing pipe from carb to see if fuel flowing out is another option. An anomoly with mechanical lift pumps is that the engine operated cam lever can leave the pump valves open such that mechanical lever has little or no action. Turning crank through several degrees solves thIs.

No lever on the pump.

If it's a Weber DGAV, these are notorious for 'drying out' Like yours, if i use mine daily, she catches straight away. If I use her weekly, it take a fair bit of priming before she'll start. However, you seem to be doing all the right checks.

Often, if I'm restarting bikes from a long lay up (months), I'll give a little squirt of 'easy start' just to get things going and everything pumping nicely. That will also let you know if the ignition system is working properly and fuel is pumping, People frown, but far less strain on battery and start motor.

Possible causes and solutions.
a)sediment has formed and settled in the tank blocking the pickup. If you fancy, you can blow the pipe, but be prepared for serious 'blow back'. An airline would be best (or even a can of compressed air). I'd also blow down into the fuel fuller and see if any fuel is coming out the pipe. Again, same warning about blow back.
b) Pump has failed/blocked - remove top and check diaphragm/filter guaze. If it runs on Easy Start, and the tank/pipe is unblocked then there's your issue. You could also set up a gravity feed tank to see if that works,

Where in the UK are you - someone may be local to help further?

Sounds like no fuel getting to the pump.

Have you turned the engine over with the plugs out and coil disconnected in case the fuel has drained back into the tank?

Also, I'd check the fuel line from tank to pump in case of vermin attack over the winter months..I've come across an instance where a copper pipe was gnawed through!!

Arwyn

I had a split in the rubber fuel line from the tank which stop flow

Thanks for all the suggestions - I'm in Winchester, but i'm distancing if not actually self isolating, which is why I was in the lockup..... It is a Weber DGAV 32/36 (or at least the manual choke version). I have a spare pump, so I'll return with some Easy start, and some tubing to blow out the pipes and some tools this time and let you know how it goes....cheers

It’s possible the fuel pump diaphragm has failed due to unleaded petrol but equally possible that the points need cleaning. Check you’ve got a spark - assuming there’s no petrol leaking externally. Could also be that the petrol has gone off.

I had exactly the same issue when trying to start my 1969 4/4 after it’s winter lay up. My car was fitted with a new mechanical pump last year but does not seem to self prime. I removed the top of the carb to find the float bowl was as dry as a bone. I filled it with fuel, re assembled the carb and the engine started straight away and has run fine ever since. I am seriously considering fitting an electric fuel pump in the near future.