Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Well !

Exactly.

Image, the WN appears to have started in localised areas based on Anglican and non conformist schools due to English teachers being there. A Government review of Education in Wales shows some interesting comments.

Cultural impact Edit
"Among other injurious effects, this custom has been found to lead children to visit stealthily the houses of their school-fellows for the purpose of detecting those who speak Welsh to their parents, and transferring to them the punishment due to themselves."

Extracts from Reports of the Commissioners of Inquiry into the state of Education in Wales, 1847.[7]

The most frequent use of the Welsh Not in schools appears to be in the first decades following the publication of the government's Reports of the commissioners of enquiry into the state of education in Wales in 1847.

The reports noted that schools in Wales were inadequate, with English monoglot teachers and English textbooks in use in areas where the children spoke only Welsh. It concluded that the Welsh as a race were "ignorant", "lazy" and "immoral", and that one of the main causes of this was the continuing use of the "evil" Welsh language.[8]

The Reports had great influence in Wales, becoming known as Brad y Llyfrau Gleision (the Treachery of the Blue Books) among Welsh speakers, and supporting the removal of Welsh as a moral endeavour. In linking the Welsh language with low educational standards and poor morality, the report also highlighted the effective use of the "Welsh Not" and, while it did not officially endorse its use, it popularised the method as an effective tool for educators throughout Wales.[9]

Some strong “official” opinions in that! WN not officially endorsed but popularised ..... indirect political pressure?

In my view this is an example from history of prevailing attitudes and actions at that time that today would be unacceptable. That is being seen with the current protests. Historic attitudes that still have current day effects and not enough having been done over a long time to change them.
English is the predominant global language in many spheres so is desirable to be able to use. I have family, friends who have Welsh as a first language with everyday conversation in Welsh. Everyone flits from Welsh to English as those spoken to change. It is deemed rude to exclude someone who cannot speak Welsh. In Taffmog we have a mix of Welsh and non Welsh speakers. English is mainly spoken but small numbers flit into Welsh as it is the natural language between the group at that time. There is no deliberate exclusion by speaking Welsh.
Our dogs have been bilingual. Basic commands are English ( common sense as they are then usable by everyone) but “chats” are in Welsh. The barks don’t seem to be bilingual though. Sound English to me!

Spot on. Racism is prejudice based on ethnicity.

Sospan ...... it was not my intention to cause offence .... in this age where Government reaches into every corner of civic life I felt that your post could be interpreted as meaning there had been a centuries-long policy to kill or suppress the Welsh Language.

Strange as it may seem to us now the Government had no role or place in education until 1870 and by 1890 was actually giving extra funding to schools in Wales who showed success in teaching Welsh Grammar. The Treacherous Blue Books resulted from an inquiry (instigated by a Welsh MP for Coventry) and did not form part of Government policy .... This was a time of astoundingly dogmatic Religious and Social certitude and the language you quote was also regularly levelled at the rural and working classes of England.

Very different times with different standards as you say.

I certainly recognise the 'Welsh as first language and bilingualism' in my own family ....and have never subscribed to the 'they started speaking Welsh when I walked in the shop/pub' thing .... I think that stems from ignorance of the extent of everyday use of Welsh as a first language in parts of Wales.

I remember my grandfather (Hughes, born in 1894 and 6'2" tall) had a surefire system if anyone did not speak English, he simply raised his voice and spoke more slowly. If that did not work he raised his voice more and spoke even more slowly. I suspect it is people who had his attitude and refused to learn another language that contributed to English, in all its many versions and accents, being one of the most widely spoken languages in the world.

When I worked in a cigar factory, part of Gallaher Tobacco, I was called to see our factory manager. A character onown for practical jokes, no airs and graces. I sat down, he started to show me how to use his phone to record calls. I thought it was a wind-up.
“Cliff, are you retiring? Am I getting your job?”
Reply......
“Don’t be stupid, Turk. Have you had the letter? The main board had a security meeting and decided they wanted a Welsh speaker to talk to any Welsh threats of bombs or fire. You are the one here. Special Branch have your details.”
After some banter he showed me the details. No training in how to speak to the caller. I told him how I would do it.
First comments in Welsh then refuse point blank to converse further in Welsh, not happy that Welsh peoples lives were being threatened etc. To lengthen the call to possibly get clues. Thankfully I never had the opportunity to do it.
Turk......a nickname for people in Llanelli, my home town. One of many nicknames I had. Never offensive and based a lot on the Welsh terminology for naming people. Jones the milk was a milkman. Davies the Death was an undertaker etc..
Once, when flying out of Cardiff headed to Belfast on a work trip I was pulled by the Special Branch officer and questioned. It was a planned wind-up set up by Cliff. When I realised I switched to Welsh as a retort. Good fun and a nice coffee (but no biscuit).
I find the ability to swop language both courteous and fun. Even overemphasising the Welshness to parody the accent at times. I can do a good Gog accent based on an uncle who was a Vicar up in North Wales, ( we call North Waleans Gogs as North is Gogledd in Welsh.)
It is fun being Welsh. For a small cash contribution I can arrange partial Welsh status for you. No Scottish, Irish, Euro notes, though!

We learned Dutch in Holland, It is a great language as so few speak it. You would be surprised what Dutch people say about others when abroad, or their shock when my wife say good day or thank you after they commented on the folk around.
It helps in RSA but is not the same as Afrikaans obviously.

Well it's a start the voters will let him know if it's enough, personally I think he's airbrushing and it will return again.

This one reminds me of when people respected one another for their talents nothing more nothing less when I was growing up it was very straight forward. Besides it's a great atmospheric image



Heavyweight Champion of the World, Sonny Liston, draped in a kilt on his way to attend a fight at the Paisley Ice Rink (1963).

"World heavyweight champ Sonny Liston drew a huge crowd of followers in Glasgow in 1963 when he donned full Highland rig, before an exhibition bout at Paisley Ice Rink. The gigantic kilt had been borrowed from a retired drum major.
Ahead of the bout, Liston made himself at home, drinking in city bars, visiting a local distillery, and even trying his hand at playing the pipes (stick to the boxing, big man!).
We see him here, striding past Central Station, in Gordon Street.
Glasgow, in turn, took the boxer to its heart. At the height of the civil rights battle in his native America, Liston said: “I am warm here, because I am among warm people and I feel that and react to it.