Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms VIN plate missing

Thanks for all the replies. BHM are progressing this and I expect to be asked to provide something in the future. The chassis is stamped and that resides beneath the carpet on a chassis member. I am reluctant to pull this up although I will if absolutely needed.
BHM speculated that any plate will do as long as it has the correct number stamped on it. This is born out by the new thread posted by ‘Image’. I’ll keep you posted.

Well that is a good question.

The holes are drilled and there is tape residue all around it in a rectangular pattern suggesting a stick on plate. The four holes look unused. It is hard to imagine someone would remove it deliberately and yet equally unlikely that it simply fell off. A mystery.
The car is a 2009 model, lightly used, generally unmolested, complete, never crashed or damaged and in very fine condition.

Thanks for sharing your VIN numbers lads. Got all the information I need to clone your cars now.....

Arwyn

Fairly difficult to clone a mog methinks ... mostly done with a similar model and colour car, fine if you've just nicked an expensive Beemer and there's two just like it in every urban car park ..... and most UK cars have the vin sat out there at the bottom of the windscreen for the world and his brother to see .... still, posters can blur or strike out the vin if they're worried.

K

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...fUap6lB8BQp3UW1ACk9E/edit#gid=1849462628

No worries. Here's a few hundred more for you.

Fairly easy to clone a Mog? Well I know of a situation where a high value Mog was sold overseas and when the new owner went to register it with the vehicle registration department, he was told his car couldn't be registered as that chassis number was already in use.

Also, there's at least one Plus 4 Super Sports in existence with a suffix after its chassis number due to the chassis number being in use.

Also, there was a certain character in the Morgan Three Wheeler Club who was into building specials. A built a few, all with the same chassis number and sold them abroad, keeping the chassis number/V5 for his UK car - God knows what's going to happen when someone decides to re import one!

Arwyn

This also happens sometimes in the racing world where there are more of some very high value racing cars than were ever produced in period .... don't think all the vintage Bentleys or lightweight e-types would welcome close scrutiny .... often they're 'famous' cars which have been crashed or worked on and the engine has gone one way and the chassis/body gone another .... both to resurface later as as 'the car' ..... somewhat different from the wholesale activities of car ringers in the ordinary world .... I don't think I'll be losing sleep because a picture of my ordinary car's chassis plate is on an internet forum, but each to their own.

K

Interesting topic, I spent quite some time on eMog in discussion of values attributable to originality and identity, the latter being the more important in my mind.

The first Morgan I went to view with possible purchase in mind, turned out to have no real identity as it was essentially a mix of a collection of parts left over from the repair of the "original" Morgan, added to with some new parts such as a wooden body frame fibreglass wings and a Ford "Mexico" engine... I suspect the chassis was original and may have been straightened out to give it a new life.... Fortunately I had been messing about restoring my old cars for long enough to spot the likely issues of trying to register the machine were it ever assembled to once again become roadworthy.. I walked away.

I remember a discussion whereby a lady in either the US or Canada made reproduction Morgan chassis, and would supply then to folk who had accident damage or rot issues with their Morgans. Following on from that and relative to discussions of identity, I suggested that anyone scrapping their chassis should destroy the numbers stamped into the crossmember, lest someone come across the chassis and sort it`s issues using it to re-create the "original" Morgan, given in times past I believe the chassis number was the prime identifier of a vehicle in the UK..

As per Arwyn`s post, I too have read where some folk put a suffix on their chassis numbers if the original is replaced, but while that may well seem a rightful record of the history of the car, it may risk confusion with the authorities should push ever become shove...?

The VIN and caution plate on my 85/6 bulkhead is similar to that of TimH, though my bulkhead was treated to a coat or toe of high gloss black lacquer like much else underbonnet and elsewhere when it was rebuilt circa Y2K, thus the plate will have been removed and replaced, it is glued in place and shows no signs that that any of the four holes were ever used as a method of fixing either by rivet or any other means...? One other means of identity is that the engine number can be found other than on the engine...! Fortunately mine matches which confirms it also has it`s original engine... (-:

K`s post on race cars seems prescient in that as part of scrutineering at one time I seem to remember identity/Vin numbers being checked... which caused me to think back again to I the importance of identity over originality, I have in the past sited the case of Old Number One, where there were a series of shenanigans around whether the car in question really was Old Number One, so much so that it ended up in the English High Court...

If it looks like a Morgan sounds like a Morgan and drives like a Morgan.... is that enough when parting with your cash, or is it important that the vehicle in question is recognised as a Morgan by the registration authorities by way of the identification numbers it bears...hmm..?

Given Morgans may be greatly modified by all manner of means, I ever found it a topic of interest..trying to define that which is or that which may not be considered as a Morgan can run and run and rum... Anyone remember ROB 80 R... Shades of Old Number One perhaps...

The legal principle established by the Brewer v Mann case is that of "continuous history". It doesn't matter what parts are replaced in the lifetime of a car, including its chassis, the car retains its identity if all the changes are documented.

Thanks for the heads up Ian, I am well out of touch with the ever changing regs, though I suspect when you mention the term "Documented" I wonder at what level the documentation might be acceptable, thinking perhaps as a minimum recorded by a recognised restorer of the Marque or the marque club or perhaps more importantly the DVLA..? Thinking if a replacement chassis is fitted then the "original" numbers re-applied with a suffix perhaps, that the DVLA is notified of the updated "identity" applied to the chassis... or perhaps just drop the suffix and just number as before without informing the DVLA... yeah can of worms for sure..... Hmm..?

That which seemed acceptable in the past has altered considerably perhaps more so in the world of high value old cars, such as the Bentleys, more so if the law get involved...?