Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Petrol cars to Subsidise EV?

Likely they are talking nonsense Nick. Even the 80Ah battery on my toy car lasts a couple of weeks and that is lead acid which does self discharge. The equivalent battery on a leccy car is a hundred times bigger and is lithium ion which doesnt self discharge in the same way so all it is supporting is the likes of the immobiliser, radio battery etc plus anything else you have left on by accident.

Perhaps I should have mentioned that the clients I spoke of are electric car owners.....
I'll ask one or two of them how much they lose in a 24 hour period. Maybe different makes flow differently?
Nick

It is worth looking outside the UK at some examples as well. I work with a company in Eire. The import duty on cars is shocking to me even given the UK tax on new cars is noticeable. The BIK ratings are also worse as I understand it (less background to go on) so an Electric car in Ireland is a no-brainer for a company if you use a PCP to offset the high purchase cost.

I have one friend who is a petrol head and has a most beautiful old model MB 450SLC and sports car (again vintage) but has recently given in and got a Tesla 3 as his daily drive. He is in the position of being a company director and so gets more latitude than many I guess. By using the PCP on the Tesla with BIK?Tax benefits it is way less than his last car for cost and tax. He described it as a bland thing that could not raise his pulse even at full throttle.

Also to comment on TBM's charging statement. I agree there is going to be some material for the press to amplify and distort on "charger rage" at some point in the future. To be fair to the makers and some of the charging companies there is actually more intelligence going into this than is visible. The car usually has an app (if not the charging companies have a phone app but that's a different issue with so many competing small startups) which works out range, nearest free point, charge time and several other things using sat nav directions. This will only improve as time progresses which at least should help. If they were to actually clarify into an open API to share data on google maps it would be a miracle but right now it is the new goldrush with investments chasing dominance and profit so fat chance.

The other bit missing is the acceptance rate of the car and this is already turning into an option trick for the vendors. Basic and pay-more options.

The new VW ID3 is coming with a range of batteries and charger capabilities - a review can be found here. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/volkswagen/id-3 So the £40k base price will climb quick if you want range and charging speed! Thats before you add leather(adjacent) and all the other knobs.

(Quote - Autocar)
Battery Capacity - Buyers will eventually get the choice of a 148bhp or 201bhp output, although early First Plus UK models will have 201bhp and 229lb ft – all channelled through a fixed-ratio gearbox to the rear wheels. Along with two outputs, buyers will also choose between three battery packs: 48kWh (for a 205-mile WLTP range), 58kWh (261 miles) and 77kWh (342 miles).

Charger Capability - The model driven here, with the mid-range 58kWh battery, can be charged on an AC system at up to 11kW or with a DC set-up at up to 100kW. VW claims the latter has sufficient electrical energy to provide a range of 180 miles within 30 minutes of charging. More meaty models get an even more powerful 125kW option, leading to even more rapid charging times.

If we ignore the get out of jail free only 3 pin plug and focus on the real chargers we see they offer different rates. The higher the number the faster it can dispense in theory. However the car has a maximum acceptance speed it can accept as well and if it is lower than the charger it will simply throttle the charger back. Chargers can be 10 units up to the 150/200 units appearing from Tesla and Porsche now. Cars may have a basic capability (50 units) and if you pay the extra at purchase time an optional 80-100 unit capability. This is alongside the different battery packs being offered, low (included price) medium and high range/capacity (options). This makes sense if you are trying to get volumes up and make it more accessible. Not everyone runs the length of the UK every day. Certainly not right now!

So I can put a Porsche Taycan with the optional higher capacity transformer (300 units capability) on a 50 unit street charger and you are still looking at more than a coffee and bun. https://www.chargepoint.com/blog/charging-porsche-taycan-fast-charging-and-more/ has a few to look through if you are interested.

How many 300 unit chargers are there for a Taycan? https://www.porsche.com/international/aboutporsche/e-performance/charging-on-the-road/ A recent launch gimmick by Porsche had a person driving the coast to coast route using the mega chargers to highlight how quickly it could be done. The route was VERY carefully chosen and some might say had been provisioned with the chargers deliberately to help the PR stunt. This is also why Tesla did such a good job. They put in high power chargers and transformers from the beginning. It was not just the number of them but the quality as well.

So it will be a combination of what you spec on the car. Battery capacity, power transformer (acceptance speed) and charger that determine the charge time as we move forwards. This also allows the vendors to claim "0-80% charge in 30 minutes" which is probably the small battery with the biggest transformer on the fastest charger.

Buyer beware on the second hand market in the future. Not all BEV's PHEV's etc will be as equal as they tend to be at the moment. Its just development and sales taking its natural path as the stakes climb due to the massive investment they are making. If it means more people can migrate and benefit from lower operating costs then it can only help even if I find them dull I get the logic. Either way the thing makes a good back up charger for your iPad.

I used to have a S2A Land Rover - apart from my bikes it was my only transport - so had it converted to LPG for better cost economy than the 'high teens' I wasgetting on petrol. MPG was similar on LPG but often less than half the price of petrol.

There was no app at the time, but I had an LPG station database that I uploaded on to my SatNav so I could easily find the nearest station. Range was similar to the average EV at about 180-200miles. Luckily there were three within a 10 miles radius of home so again, could usually start off with a full tank.

Not sure about others, but I'm regularly doing journeys of 150-200miles. Trips to Wales, down south to see friends, Peak District, round trip to Worcester to see the folks etc. WIth LPG I found I was having to do massive detours in my routes, just so I could pass an LPG station. Luckily I had dual fuel so I can still run on petrol, but I reckon I was often negating any benefit of LPG by all the extra miles and time spent trying to find somewhere to fill up.

That is exactly why the solution is not BEV. Hydrogen fuel cell, at the moment, seems the only viable solution. Surely it is time for governments to start pushing this.

I think hydrogen would be great.

I also hope that lithium-sulphur batteries might help to improve range in some vehicles. They are already in production and being tested in aircraft anyway...

IEEE.org

Our everyday motoring is typically local so range capability is not a major deciding factor for an EV. Longef journeys tend to be Morgan related. We would also hire a car as an alternative for certain situations.
The barrier for me to go EV as a private buyer is the initial cost of the car. Significantly higher than the equivalent ICE variant. Get an EV as a third car? Amount of use doesn’t warrant it. No work/commute requirements means extra cars are not needed. The Morgan is both a fun car and a runabout.
I also think the Hydrogen route would be a better long term option. I think EV as we currently have is like the diesel promotion of a few years back. Knee jerk, fill the gap, false eco scenario.

Same with us. But in any case, our Fiat 500 is only 5 years old and has got a good 10 to 15 years more life in it, probably more, before it would need changing.

The 'greenest' strategy, if one already owns a reasonably recent ICE vehicle, is to hang on to it but reduce one's use of it wherever possible, ideally switching to a bicycle or e-bike for short trips into town and suchlike.

Exactly. A lot of discussion misses the cost of batteries and production, and the accompanying environmental impacts.

I was told by someone charging their car in a public car park that in Scotland all public chargers except in Moray are free to use. So all council tax payers car owners or not are paying for EVs.