Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Lockdown

Even the The Guardian has doubts about the Barrington Declaration

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ned-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

Financed by climate deniers

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/10/09/...ork-behind-great-barrington-declaration/

Basically, trust the public to do the right thing, lock up the over 60's who can only see family outside, open up all stadiums, shops, bars, concert halls. Everyone go back to work including public transport and don't worry about NHS staff and hospitals being over run.

I've signed.

Got to get on with it.

Can't see anything on those links at the moment.

That's very interesting Peter, and lockdown is would appear to be an over-reaction for that particular student community.
I wonder if the experience is repeated elsewhere?

I *get* the broad approach of the Barrington declaration. I certainly wouldn't dismiss it because the organisation holds investments in a broad spread of C20 industries (we probably all do, unless we've specifically chosen a pension plan to avoid them) or because the organisation took (for them a small amount of) $68,000 in donations from people with fringe views on climate.

Life is rarely simple, and these are all difficult choices. Governments' and the media's corruption of data doesn't help keep perspective or allow people to make informed choices.

Will

My fault. Working now

The problem with Barrington is when logical, coherent argument can be shot down so easily as the ramblings of fraudsters and climate deniers then government and others are not held to account.
A letter signed by fewer, but genuinely informed and knowledgeable people unfinanced by vested interests making logical sensible alternative options to Government policies would have been more successful, this now gets laughed at.
Government decisions must be held to account, the science behind them disclosed, blinkered criticism that everything they do is wrong is flawed. In the same way they should and must be criticised for poor decision making, credit should be given where they get it right.

Having said that they don’t get a lot of credit from me

I don't really see that the declaration is applicable to the situation as it is. It implies we are in a lockdown (we're not, and haven't been since June). The measures it suggests to free things up seem to correspond with the sort of things most Governments have done since the end of lockdown. It seems vague on the definitions of who is and who isn't vulnerable. There is no mention of measures which have been shown to have certain levels of effectiveness (track and trace, mask wearing). I absolutely disagree that allowing the health service to be swamped with cases is an OK idea.

Thank you Neptune, for pointing out that it was financed by climate change deniers. Kind of puts it into context.

Not just the Guardian

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/09/25/herd-immunity-fallacy-infected-the-world/

Not going to get into a political argument about Herd Immunity .... however I was interested to hear the head of WHO condemning Herd Immunity on the grounds it had never been tried as a policy in the History of Public Health Organisations....... that is no doubt true, but organised Public Health is a very young thing.... in the span of Human history it's hardly a blink .... and in the absence of any medication, or even understanding of the mechanism of infection, then reliance on individual's immune systems and herd immunity has, for a Million years, been the Human Race's survival strategy against successive waves of novel viruses...... and one that has demonstrably worked (or I wouldn't be here typing this)

Whether it works within the approval tolerances modern populations have for incumbent governments is entirely another question.

K

Professor Neil Ferguson said in a recent Radio 4 interview last month, that some parts of Brazil, Pakistan, India and New York along with some London boroughs which are probably approaching herd immunity but it's too early to tell. Not sure if he is a climate denier?