Talk Morgan Forums Community Vehicle Talk (non-Morgan) the definition of a classic sports car

Easy question to answer if you first begin by determining what a sport is. As posed, the question is analogous to defining a sport by which racket, bat or ball is used.

2. If you look to all sports, one cannot eliminate the need of a full interaction between the items used and the athlete/team that use them. Turbo or ECUs are unimportant as long as they can be interacted with by the driver and/or his team. To say that their presence these preclude a sport is short-sighted. ALL current professional sports cars have constantly tweak their ECUs for performance, depending on ambient conditions and track conditions..just like the carb'ed version used to constantly teak those devices for better competition. Like waxing skis (many waxes!) or sharpening skates. In fact, earlier ECU types (L-Jets) are eminently owner friendly.

However, the plummet in sports car sales in the 1970s pushed manufacturers to broaden that market. They did so by removing the need for driver skill. Then the government ended the ability to interact with engines, which did not bother the unskilled a single bit. Since then the ability to interact with most of the offerings labelled "sports cars" ended..aside from very obscure marques like Morgan who also succumbed to the general current trend.

Sports cars don't need sportsmen anymore. The cars drive themselves and that is how they market ballooned again. Skill and mechanical acumen became unnecessary. Where we once excitedly changed stories of valiant repairs, wonderful skill and maneuvers (remember WW2 pictures of pilots describing how they got the best of the next guy with their hands), we now brag about the only two areas we can;

a. what new technology we bought and don't understand
b. how fast our car can go (in an environment we are not permitted to go very fast!)
c. how much we spent on the thing

Group interaction has become about velcro'ed spring gaiters and polished metal addons. We buy hopelessly expensive nonsense to replace the areas and components we cannot properly maintain.

How far from grace we have fallen!

1. I agree with the 1-2 seats, but open tops is merely a touring feature. Closed tops are faster.

2. (above)

3. Irrelevant.

4. manual gearbox ---sorta agree, unless the autobox is adjustable.

5. Makes no sense unless that is the sport variation that one desires.

Before I am pillared, I agree that a small modern open air touring car is much fun..but it is NOT a sport or a sports car. Let us not fool ourselves.

Yes. Current Porches usually lead the pack in cars that don't need driver input on any level. Similar to a set of golf clubs that can start playing your round without you. Very much like cars that have two available tuning or cars that come with a single or even 2 engine tunings, both chosen by others and untouchable by owners. Exactly where is the sport?

As I have typed more than once, I think the term Classic relative to old cars came into being when the Classic press arrived on the scene in the seventies, up till then most folk would describe old cars as bangers. I remember the then editor of Car Mechanics (John Bolster..?) was repairing his old XK Jag and was searching the country for a replacement door as the bottom of the Jags door was well rotted, he was over the moon to eventually find one having phoned round just about every Jag dealer in the UK ..!

How different are things became when just about every part for so many old cars is available off the shelf, and it seems even the average person in the street might use the word Classic to identify any sort of old mundane machine as a classic..... Then of course there are the Modern Classics, a CX Morgan perhaps might be described as such with not even a mile on the clock..?

John, your description of air cooled Porsche fits well with my experience of them and perhaps why there are so many mechanically educated folk who choose to own them, from hands-on spanner wielders through to top automotive designers, and many others outside the industry such Terrance Conran a long time 911 fan till he departed this mortal coil...

It would seem difficult to deny the popularity of the VW Beetle which was built upon hard won principals of basic and reliable engineering with a degree of quality built in that ensured it`s longevity.... Reading your impressions of your Porsche experience John, you could have been typing of that which made the Beetle such a popular vehicle for the masses..? That Mr Porsche sought to carry over the qualities he had built into the peoples car to create a sports car, and did so with great success given the number of Porsche wins in sports car races of every type to try to deny the obvious seems perhaps less that well thought out...?

Air cooled Porsche detractors fall into quite a few categories, and those of my fathers generation had justifiable reasons for not appreciating anything German or Japanese, though after many years of suffering BL products my father in law had bought the then new to market Metro, it let water in around the top front curve of the door seal, the car was written off by his son, and the new replacement leaked water in exactly the same location.... I suggested he might like to try a Nissan Micra, which he did and he could not believe the reliability and minimal maintenance requirements and thus stuck to buying Nissan without issue for many a year...There is no denying better quality engineering when it is found to be exactly that...?

Dennis Jenkinson (International Correspondent for the Motor Sport) owned two E-Type Jaguars over a period of time and drove anything and everything..........enough said!

I think that, like beauty, the definition of a "classic sports car" is in the eye of the beholder.

While I do agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as one who caries the scars of mechanical meddling over many a year, the quality of the design and materials selected along with the way they are machined and put together to preform the task required of the assemblage has for ME a tad more importance than the beauty of a set of wonderful curves. If Curves happened to be my priority then I suspect my sights might be set on a Ferrari as the panicle of my desire, but that is not the case, though I can fully understand the attraction, had I an excess of wherewithal, and as a confirmed petrol head, I would certainly have one in my garage.

With limited funds available a degree of practicality has to take precedence, and that is where function over form comes to the fore, thus temperamental Italian beauties fall by the wayside when there may be a longer more demanding road to be followed...?

I have owned an old Jag, I remember well working with shims and a micrometer to set up valve clearances on that wonderful 3.8 six cylinder engine, a bit of a fiddle, but exactly the kind of involvement I enjoyed at that time. Inboard discs and handbrake shoes provided other maintenance challenges on occasion, more so with the passage of time. I was fortunate to put £60 worth of petrol through a V12E in the late 70`s it was a special machine indeed, and still is today, but for ME it seems when I add everything up, the practicality of an air cooled Porsche still fits the bill at this moment in time.

I guess there are lots of reasons why people with access to sample all sorts of machinery on a regular basis might choose one or other car for their personal transport when spending their own cash, and their decisions may not be entirely practical, nationalistic traits and other types of bias may take prominence over practicality, and in my case after years of air cooled Porsche ownership, my next fun car of choice was a Morgan... which in engineering terms alone was a step back in time. NOT that I was in any way ignorant of the realities of Morgan ownership prior to spending my hard earned coin, having spent circa five years on the MSCCDG then eMog reading of all of the many foibles that Morganeers experienced over that period of time and while trying to contribute in some way to helping folk resolve them....

As I have typed before my Desire to own a Morgan was based upon a degree of practicality.. (-: I was desirous of a vintage sports car experience with a degree of performance that could keep up with or perhaps better modern traffic, a Vintage Bentley had fired my imagination at the time, and all things considered a Morgan seemed to fit the bill.... which it did and more so than ever expected.

If for whatever reason I may not come to own another Porsche, that will bother me not a jot, for despite my Morgan not fitting the bill as it once did relative to my ageing processes, it has earned it`s place in my garage and still provides memories a plenty and a sense of pleasure every time I visit the garage, and of course a linkage to this fine group of enthusiasts with tales a plenty to tell.. (-:

For sure a 911 would better protect me from the cold and damp, and as such in my part of the world would be a more practical solution, providing more opportunity to get out and about in all weathers...BUT... for now my old Mog is sitting comfortably no more than a few steps away ready and waiting...Just that the weather is grey and wet and cold... and looks to be so for some period of time... Bu@@er..!

The essence of a sports car changes with time and with generations.

If you think you have a sports car, that's all that matters. Others will disagree. At one end you have the trials mentality. At the other end the soft market with bells and whistles. It really doesn't matter.

A blower Bentley would be my dream car. I don't see it as a sports car. I don't even think it was seen as one in period. But having one would make me very happy.

Yep, but for me it will have to be a dream. Even if someone gave me one, with single-figure fuel consumption and 4 litres a minute at full bore I could never afford to run the thing.

I've often pondered on my dream car "The Beast of Turins" mpg figure, like RR if you have to ask you probably can't afford it

I love them, too. But a Le Mans racer is of course a sports car, even if they are big and heavy.

The fastest lorries in the world according to Mr Bugatti.