Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Cross head out of whack?

Hello all,

Am still in the midst of my kingpin replacement job, and having a major issue. Right side went together without much effort. The left side not so much. I was having a quite the time getting the kingpin to nest into the dust cover. Then being able to get the oiler bolt in. Finally, did manage to get it all together but it’s not right, and the pic (if it works!) will show why, it’s on an angle to the upper mount plate.


Here’s a pic of what it looked like before reinstall. Unfortunately I didn’t take a pic of that side before I took it apart.



What’s my next move? Hoping this weekend to take that side apart, and try to figure out if the lower crosspiece mount is rotated, which is all I can think of, because the king pin kept coming up at that canted angle no matter what trick I tried. But if it is rotated it also may be bent forward which is why it does come up so close. Or lower is rotated and upper is bent back.

Ideas and thoughts appreciated.

-Nelson
66 plus 4.
‘Striving to better oft we mar what’s well.’
Am learning it wasn’t as well as I thought.

Take some measurements from the lower and upper tubes to a known point on the chassis and compare left and right sides. Bolt a bare kingpin to the lower mount and see where it sits at the upper.
Does the hole in the brace tube align with the hole in the lower mount?
How did it drive before you took it apart? Did it pull to one side or the other?


Has the car ever been hit?

I’ll measure when I have it apart. I don’t have much history on the car, only some old pics of a body-off rebuild like 30 yrs ago.

On that side, the ring on the lower cross head mount has been repaired, a piece clearly welded in. So I do suspect there was damage of some form.

I may be completely wrong but that doesn't look how mine looked when it was apart.

I believe the castor angle is 4 degrees. (Forgive with the next bit) Tangent of 4 degrees is 1.15 approx so for every 100mm of vertical separation the top should be 1.15mm behind the bottom. So if the separation is 400mm the top should be 4.6mm further back than the front.

Not sure what the actual gap is but your top looks approx 25mm further back than the bottom.

Plumb line on a bit of cotton dropped from the top would establish.

'course I could be totally bonkers!

Nelson

OK we see the problem. That is definitely not right, the dust cover should be flush on the upper cross frame mounting point. The most likely explanation is that the frame front (cross frame) has been distorted at some time in its long lifetime. Are there any signs of the tubes being stressed, a small crease anywhere , or the brazing having been retouched at any time ?

I agree with Dave Collis try taking lots of measurements from the end of the lower cross tube back to the chassis (preferably on both sides (but I understand you might be reluctant to take the right side apart if that fits well)

Try to get the chassis level and take measurements to the floor on both sides (providing the latter is itself level)

I notice you have an axle stand under the lower cross tube , believe it or not this can distort things slightly and it might be worth getting the weight off this (jacking in the middle of the cross frame lower tube. However I doubt if this would cause quite so much of a problem.

With a judicious amount of heat , and a few choice bars and tools you can "tweak" the bars and end pieces slightly , but this is not a job for the faint hearted, and it would help to do it with someone having skills in this area. Failing this get hold of the measurements of a "new" frame front and see whether there is a significant difference. Morgan Spares in New England should be able to help with this.

Looking closely there is a slight bend in the tie rod as well as some rather interesting marks on the inner wings so I'm guessing its had a shunt at some stage.

It also looks to have been run with negative camber bottom plates at some stage.

Arwyn

Yes, I do see that subtle bend in the tension rod.

I have to measure well and figure out what castor angle I'm at. It certainly off, but I have to find where it's off in order to fix that. presumably.

I may have to level the car - right now the front's higher so I could get the king pins in/out.

I would call Cain at Wolf Performance or Spanner Juggler to get advice. They do /did this for a living.

When my S1 was hit by a white van man back in August it led to c £30k rebuild including the cross head as he hit at TDC of the front tyre. That involved a new wing, cross head, king pin & axle stub.

You can see in the photo he initial view would be that can't be so bad.

Nelson

DaveW has a post on TM on rebuilding the Kingpins which may help you.

Thanks all! I've got local resources, and across the pond I'm working with Tim Ayres who sold me all my Rutherford kit. John, I feel for you, that sounds brutal, and pricey. But what a great color on that car!

DaveK, I think I've read that but will double check - have read every post on pins I could find - and on oiler, cross head, etc. And gomog. And Fred's book. And Gary's (Cuthbert Twillie) book, John Sheally, and so on. Am trying. This is all part of the fun for me, truly. If there wasn't anything to fix, where's the fun in that!

I'll get it apart and take some measurements, let folks know.