Talk Morgan Forums Community Vehicle Talk (non-Morgan) New toy

Thanks Peter for WMD = Weapon of Mass Destruction, makes sense now.

Neilda - nice pictures, I love the GT40



I thought the 2.5 Cents per KM was a state charge and already started in SA, VIC and potentially other states will follow. I guess we need to wait and see what happens with it.

My son is a registered mechanic and I generally do my own servicing so not worried about service costs that much. But I agree an EV should be cheaper.

I have solar panels which sort of adds to my problem. I installed a 1.5KW system in 2010 for $4900 at the 47cent feed in. At that time I was paying 15cent per KW so a very good deal. Two independent meters on the house, say I generated 100Kwh ins a charging period and used 400Kwh my bill would be 400 * $.015 less 100 * $.47 = $60 - $47 = $13. Those types of deals disappeared about 10 years ago, I have a 20 year contract with 10 years to go but if I change anything they cancel it. Generally each year it generates about $800 of credit so it has paid for itself and from now on it is just free money as long as it keeps working, last month I noticed it not working and had to pay $319 to get a faulty switch on the roof replaced which means losing about 40% of this years credit, hopefully nothing else goes wrong. I am now paying $0.23 per Kwh but still getting $0.47 for each Kwh generated.

Based on that any EV would be charged from the $0.23Kwh tariff and the panels just charging the grid at $0.47 which gives me the best money from the setup. So no difference in cost for an EV if I didn't have panels. The question is how long should I keep the system? It is a good rate but a fairly inefficient system compared to what I can get now.

I installed a 6.6Kwh system at my rental property my son lives at. It cost me $14,000 although part of that was upgrading the metre and fuse box. He pay $0.21Kwh and gets $0.08Kwh for any excess. So in his case it makes sense to use as much power during the day as possible to save 21cents rather than 8 cents. If he owned a Tesla then he could charge it during the day and really only pay $0.08 for each Kwh (as he would not get paid for back to the grid) however he is out working all day so chances are the car would get charged at $0.21 most of the time.

As you say there are free chargers out there, NRMA for example which is the best option to use. I heard Tesla Australia advertising that people can plug their other cars into a Tesla Supercharger if they want, based on their charge of 52 cents per KWh I am not surprised they are happy for anyone to use it.

I expect the system at my sons place to save him about $2,000 to $3,000 a year so pay for itself in 5 to 7 years, as the warranty on all the components are 25 years it means it will be well and truly paid for itself about 4 times before it might cost money in repairs. Seems like a good way of giving my son some of his inheritance early.

I thought about putting a battery onto my sons house and chose an invertor that can have a battery plugged into it, but for a 13.3KW battery the cost is $16,000. Assuming it got charged fully every day and fully used every night it would save 13.3Kwh by $0.21 less $0.08 or 13.3*(0.21 - 0.08) = $1.73. For 365 days that is = $631.54 Based on $16,000 and a 10 year warranty that is means it will pay for itself in 25 years or 2.5 times the warranty period. I seriously doubt it would last long enough to pay for itself so not a good investment, the only tangible benefit is not losing power in an outage but in 20 years I think we have had three outages (unlike the UK in the 1970's when I was a kid and we lost power at least 3 times a week). The price needs to drop to 1/3rd for my maths to want to get one. Hopefully one day the maths for putting on a backup battery will make sense as batteries get cheaper.

I keep seeing headlines like New Battery tech will soon make EV's as cheap to buy as a petrol car, but is that really true? Take a Toyota Corolla in Australia, one of the best selling cars. Brand new ranges from $23,000 to $39,000 for a Hybrid with all the bells and whistles. The cheapest Tesla is the 3 at $70,000 in white without the long range battery or any other features. The battery is supposed to be worth either $7000USD or $16,000USD depending on what I read, basically $10,000 to $20,000 AUD. So even using the highest cost of $20,000 and Elon Musk can work out how to make free batteries the Tesla 3 would still be over $50,000AUD, making it more expensive that the most expensive Toyota Corolla and double the price of the cheapest. I am sure the Tesla 3 is a better car than a Toyota Corolla but Elon has a lot of work to get the cost of the cars down to Toyota Corolla price if he wants to sell to the masses. He can't rely just on battery prices dropping, even if they dropped to 1/3rd it is still expensive compared to a petrol car.

In 5 years when my Octavia reaches 10 years old and my panels 15 years old I am hoping that panels will still be a great option but by then so will the backup battery. It will be worth replacing the existing system and getting out of the contract. While I would consider a Tesla 3 now if the Octavia was written off hopefully in 5 years there will be a stack of electric car options to chose from and that is when I will probably replaces solar system and my car.

What I really want is a Tesla car that can be used as a back up battery, plug it in during the day when home and charge it up fully then use it to run the house at night. With a 75Kwh battery even if i used 20Kwh's at night that leaves over 50 to use for driving the next day. I talked to the Tesla dealer and they said not the car can't do that and they don't plan on changing it so it can be used as a back up battery. Pity otherwise people could use the free NMRA chargers at the shops to charger their Tesla free and get very low power bills

Well, having just entered my 6th year of Tesla ownership, I don't know why those that can afford the initial purchase price don't jump in. I'm on my 3rd Model S, wondering whether to go Porsche Taycan next or another Tesla. The mass production seems to have reduced the quality somewhat.

What I can say is, anyone that drives 20,000 miles or more per year really really really should run a Tesla. Maintenance costs in 180,000 miles so far amount to one steering joint. £32 plus labour. Consumables, just winter and summer tyres circa £800 per set, windscreen fluid circa £25 pa.

Fuel cost if I was using petrol, circa £54,000. I have paid one time to charge in my 6 years of ownership, was £12. Electricity billed to me at home I would guess circa £3,000 ( in the first 2 years of ownership only really charged on the road at Tesla points, all free plus have always had solar and battery systems)

I did my first ever long trip in March 2015 to the Geneva motorshow in the Tesla. It took roughly 1.5 hours longer than the previous year in the Range Rover. Zero fuel cost. Subsequently driven again a bit quicker as more chargers on route and also driven up to Bergen and back with the family without issue.

The biggest thing to get used to is the different way of planning your journeys. Fortunately, the Tesla makes it relatively easy with the routing via chargers and allocates time needed to charge etc. I notice the Ford website has a similar option showing routes to anywhere in Europe via charging points as well so I guess all the manufacturer's are looking to make it easier.

How are they for depreciation, shooter, that’s always been my single biggest cost?

Shooter where you live makes a difference to the viability of a Tesla, the nearest superchargers to me are 90 miles away. There are supposed to be some 20 miles away but been pending for months. There are destination chargers nearer but 22kw or lower not 150kW. Yes you can charge at home as any electric car but lack of superchargers dents the Tesla case.
Perhaps you have been lucky with your model S reliability but Tesla are at the bottom of the heap with Land Rover for reliability according to Which though recent cars have improved. Consumer Reports in US put Telsa next to bottom out of 26 for relibility & JD Power its last. Maybe your next Tesla should be a Model 3 as What Car put it most reliable executive car plus the 3 & S get high driver satisfaction ratings. Sure even Lexus & Rolls Royce break down but not often.
Reliability aside I wont buy a Tesla as controlling nearly all functions from a touch screen is not for me, I want knobs or buttons for frequent functions. Surveys put touch screens as more distracting than a hand held phone. If a Tesla suits you that fine by me.

I ran LPG cars when driving high mileages - and you do get used to mapping journeys around scarce refuelling points. ('scarce' relative to petrol stations)

If I had to the sort fo mileages that Shooter's talking about, or even to drive daily, I'd jump straight into a hybrid. There' isn't the electrical infrastructure around here for rapids, and no Tesla supercharger anywhere nearby.
On the other hands I can see 5 Type 2/ 7kw charging points in the regency crescent outside so I'd always be able to charge.

& for a hybrid I could use anytime, and park anywhere, I'd have a 2018/19 BMW i3s with a range extender - the mid life refresh raised its power and range, and the 650cc bike engine doesn't drive the car, it's just a generator. And apparently matches an M3 to 30, so comes with a hint of fun ;-)

Will

BMW certainly have a good system, if you put the destination into my i3 nav it does the route calc and as it knows your current range it warns you that your range needs a top up & offers to plan your route via a charge point, (even takes into account topography and temp) the mobile App is good too allowing you to send a destination to the car whilst sitting in the comfort of a warm house, whilst it defrosts itself

[/quote]
BMW certainly have a good system, if you put the destination into my i3 nav it does the route calc and as it knows your current range it warns you that your range needs a top up & offers to plan your route via a charge point, (even takes into account topography and temp) the mobile App is good too allowing you to send a destination to the car whilst sitting in the comfort of a warm house, whilst it defrosts itself [/quote]

Autocar did a comparison long journey in a range of electric cars. The Audi sav nav directed the driver to a non existent charge point.

So it appears in the UK Shooter gets free super chargers and very cheap servicing. But here in Australia it is 52 cents to use a super charger and the servicing costs more than I spend on a standard petrol car. November 2018 I visited a dealer with my dad while in Melbourne and they said servicing is so cheap it is fixed at $3000AUD for 3 years. I was shocked and said but that is more than I pay for servicing for a Skoda Octavia, the salesman replied it is a highly technical complex car that needs proper servicing. I replied but the advertising says it has only 17 moving parts instead of over 2000 so I can't understand why the servicing carn be so high. The salesman repeated himself.

Shooters maintenance sounds like what I was expecting but is not the case in Australia, I have cut and pasted what the deal is here. Which has me confused as the salesman definitely said $3,000 for 3 years and this shows that price for 4 years. I am hoping this is out of date as it does not mention the Model 3 and Tesla servicing has dropped to more like Shooters experience.


Tesla’s Maintenance Plans in Australia

3-Year Maintenance Plan
Term: 3 years or 60,000 km, whichever occurs first. Includes 3 inspections total, one every 12 months or 20,000 km, whichever occurs first.

4-Year Maintenance Plan
Term: 4 years or 80,000 km, whichever occurs first. Includes 4 inspections total, one every 12 months or 20,000 km, whichever occurs first.

The 3-Year Maintenance Plan can only be purchased for a new vehicle
Annual service inspections must be performed within 1,600 km or 30 days of the specified annual service inspection intervals
A loaner, rental vehicle, or other means of transportation will be provided to You, at Tesla’s discretion, if your annual service inspection is being performed at a Tesla Authorised Service Centre, and Tesla estimates that it will take over four hours to complete
This Agreement does not cover certain parts or services, including the 12V battery, brake pads, tyres or tyre rotations
You can transfer a Maintenance Plan to a new private owner of the same Vehicle during the applicable Agreement Period

Australian Tesla Maintenance Plan Prices

Prices for the maintenance plans vary depending on if you’ve got the Model S or Model X. They also differ slightly depending on how many motors you’ve got under the hood. Below you can check out how much the plans cost depending on which model you have.

It should be noted that all new Model S and X cars are All-Wheel Drive now. It’s only the older Model S cars that had the option for Rear Wheel Drive.

Plan Period Maintenance Price Price/Service
Model S Rear Wheel Drive 3 years or 60,000 km 3 annual service inspections every 12 months or 20,000 km $2,025 $675
Model S All-Wheel Drive 3 years or 60,000 km 3 annual service inspections every 12 months or 20,000 km $2,100 $700
Model X All-Wheel Drive 3 years or 60,000 km 3 annual service inspections every 12 months or 20,000 km $2,475 $825
Model S Rear Wheel Drive 4 years or 80,000 km 4 annual service inspections every 12 months or 20,000 km $3,050 $762.50
Model S All-Wheel Drive 4 years or 80,000 km 4 annual service inspections every 12 months or 20,000 km $3,175 $793.75
Model X All-Wheel Drive 4 years or 80,000 km 4 annual service inspections every 12 months or 20,000 km $3,675 $918.75

The nearest Supercharger to Salisbury is at Amesbury, 10 miles away and the other side of Salisbury.
With one exception, all the charging points in Salisbury are less than 10Kw.

Not yet convinced.

Assuming you have your own driveway and can install a charger at home, then the chargers in the vicinity of where you live shouldn't be the problem.