Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) +4ss - a real one!!!

Richard Thorne has a nice one up for sale as well. Excellent racing provenance. I like the deep blue colour on this one -

http://www.rtcc.co.uk/index.php?do=usedmorgans&car=19f3cd308f1455b3fa09a282e0d496f4

Hell of a price difference between the two of them I know which one I'd be going for!

Interesting to note that of only 6 original +4 SS models remaining in the UK, 4 are currently up for sale (as counted in this thread) - that’s approximately 80 % of the entire UK stock !

I wonder if these four will remain in the land of their birth ?

With the economic crisis the market is very high for collectables - particularly classic cars and vintage watches. And these cars were comparatively cheap to acquire 10 years ago.

If you bought one of these in the 80’s or 90’s (or before) you could make a killing on it now. Personally, if I had one, I would never sell it.

@MacMog
Sorry for the late answer. Yes the car is a Flat rad, chassis nr. P2730. We were told that Chris Lawrence bought it cheaply (pre-owned) and liked it for engine testing because it was easier to get the engine in and out than on curved rad Morgans. The engine X 773 E is of course not original to the car, it is 1991 ccm (TR3).

@MalcolmT

In a way an eperimental engine in an ex-Chris-Lawrence car would make sense. I will tell my friend to dig deeper in this direction.

Many thanks to you both
Frank

@ Bodger and MalcolmT,

I think MalcolmT has resolved this with his information that "X" was used as a prefix by Triumph for experimental engines. That would explain why engine X 773 E has a low number, as well as the suffix "E" which was not original to Morgan +4 engines. So Chris Lawrence removed the original Vanguard engine from the flatrad DHC and probably junked it, and the car is now powered by one of the experimental TR engines that Lawrence used for engine development.
Very interesting.

"Simplificate the design and add lightness" Kelly Johnson on the SR-71 "

Build in lightness" Colin Chapman

" But don't forget you'll probably kill a lot of drivers"
me- who is more than a bit fed up of seeing designers who build death traps being lauded.

Sorry, it's a soap box of mine- and the issue has recently come to the fore again with the release of "Senna"
regards
G

'GOLLY' is this finger pointing at Morgans?

This talk about the provenance of Super Sports +4's looks like it's an old thread but I've only recently signed into The Morgan Talk forum so nevertheless, old or not, it might be of interest to members to learn a little more about XRX1.

In a 1976 letter I have from Chris Lawrence he explains that Pip Arnold purchased XRX1 in 1963 from Morgans fitted with one of his angled valve, cross-flow TR engines . He acknowledges that XRX was raced by both him and Pip Arnold under his management through 1963 during which period many parts were interchanged between XRX and TOK. I do remember finding various bits and pieces on the car stamped TOK presumably so they wouldn't get them completely mixed up.

XRX was sold to Lady Clare (Table Mates) Ltd (ie Basil Fielding) in February 1964 for £940 (I have to bill of sale) when after one season of racing he instructed 'his man' (in Rugby) to fit the engine from his racing Daimler SP250 because, he said, contrary to Chris L's protestations, the LawrenceTune engine was hopelessly temperamental.

James Henderson bought XRX from Fielding around 1967 after graduating from Cambridge Uni and in 69 shipped it to Johannesburg in South Africa. He raced it extensively in SA and in Rhodesia, where it was VERY heavily crashed. I bought the car in 1971 for R1,800 and returned with it to England in 1980. When I sold the car to Andrew Jackson in 1991 it was carrying the chassis number 5471 which Henderson admitted was a made up number selected at random when he replaced the old chassis following the Rhodesia crash. In a letter dated July 1986 from James Henderson he says the chassis number on XRX when he bought it was 5356 and that 5471 properly belongs to a relatively standard +4 exported to the USA in the early 60's.

I have to question 700GNV's remark that "#4840 left the factory in 1961 to become XRX1" I do not think this is true at all. On the subject of low-line vs high-line bodies I can confirm that XRX is definitely a low-line body and always has been.

On the subject of swapped parts I replaced the original gearbox with a Moss g/box and overdrive assy from a Mk 2 Jaguar while I was still racing in SA. That mod was not a great success - too much extra weight. I brought the original box back to UK with me and sold it to David Cook in Northallerton around 1988. The rear axle was replaced after I stripped teeth off the crown wheel and pinion at Prescott in 1986.

Here's an 'anorak' detail the Morgan historians can ponder: The bodywork across the topmost part of the rear area behind the seats on TOK has (or had) fillets in the corners so the Le Mans hardtop would blend into the body whereas XRX in 1963 had the body made from new with this detail already incorporated. XRX 1 was never fitted with a hood but when I bought the car it was fitted with an identical hardtop to TOK - this is the same hardtop which in 1991 I loaned to Vic Champness to take a mould from when he was rebuilding his burned out +4 SS and which, annoyingly, he apparently copied several times over for sale to others despite a 'gentleman's agreement' not to do so.

If anyone is interested in learning more about XRX1, which gave me a considerable amount of pleasure during the 20 years I owned it, please respond on this forum or contact me on stephen@oblyt.co.uk.

Steve
Very interesting story. A dit appeared in MOG magazine a couple of months back discussing this story about what makes a genuine SS !

Very interesting to hear more about XRX1, does it still run the SP250 engine?

Dave, any idea which MOG issue?