Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Whart have you bodged up today

Yes, I have suffered similar buttock clenching moments particularly in the 4/4 Sport with the Conti tyres, I changed them early for Toyo's which helped a bit...

I suspect it has ever been the creed of the Morganeer, to modify his machine almost as an act of faith..? Having spent quite a number of years on forums,I have felt privileged to read of the many trials, tribulations and triumphs in that regard. Of course in many cases improving on a trad could be a rather simple process given it`s rudimentary design being that which attracted me to the marque, yet not a true vintage machine with true Vintage...err...limitations and of course expense. With that in mind it seems I perhaps fell into a "position" in terms of appreciating originality relative to the time my Morgan exited through the gates of the factory. I suspect valuing varying degrees of "originality" is one of the sub cultures of the old car "faithful"...? (-:

I can well understand that certain types want or need to get the tools out to get involved with their hobby machine, in times past such was the expected build quality such involvement was perhaps deemed a necessity, though today I guess our expectations of reliability have altered, perhaps more so with the young than us who are of the baby boomer generation and may have memories of compulsory repair and maintenance, grease nipples perhaps being the last vestige we held on to in terms of mechanical maintenance simplicity, long after advanced engineering and better material choices determined there was a better way..and long before the MMC thought to try to adopt it..? Not that I wanted them to..! Interesting to note that amongst the changes, much can still stay the same..? No need to list examples. While us BB`s seems as forgiving as ever, I very much doubt that the young will be quite as foible forgiving as we BB`s have been over the years, and perhaps less so as we age even further... Hmm..?

Back to Originality...It seems my Mog fails on the originality stakes it`s fit finish and material choices exceeding factory spec in numerous areas when it was rebuilt by Kevin...It even lacks the front suspension oiler, and has tubular shockers all round, but it is still almost original... to the way Kevin rebuilt it....(-: Oops, I forgot, just recently fitted some SS exhaust sections to replace the "original" now corroded mild steel.... I guess in reality I risk excommunication by the originality faithful...(-:

All that ramble initiated by the resuscitation of the vid with poor chap who managed to brake in a wonderfully straight line over quite some distance leaving lengthy black streaks of rubber on the road, nothing up with the brake balance across the front wheels there then..? All of which took me back a number of years to a discussion I had with Colin AKA Spanner Juggler in which I questioned replacing "original" brake components with "modified" kit, better discs possibly vented, even drilled perhaps, larger multi piston calipers, to allow for larger pads to increase contact area on the discs....? All of which can leave even longer black lines when we might be unfortunate enough to panic and try to push our brake pedal through the floorboard as if out life depended on it, just as it seems that poor chap may have done...? Of course his brakes may have been completely standard, and modified brakes could perhaps require less effort and or provide more feel in normal operation, but in blind PANIC... I suspect they could perhaps lay a tad more rubber over a longer distance if as seems possible they might lock up earlier.. The thinking being that it was hitting the bulk of the other car that stopped the poor chap, the brakes managing to have slowed the actual force of impact and not stop the accident from happening..?

As ever more than happy to be proved entirely incorrect, I left schooling at age 15 with a BPA, so what do I know...

Just passing time thinking in type on a Sunday Morning.

One tends to forget the era of when ABS were first introduced on everyday cars and the impact that had on braking distances. Very poignant when in fast moving traffic on motorways, when the unexpected slowing down and braking in stop start traffic would have a material impact if you were ABS fitted and those around you weren't. Whilst you may avoid a collision you usually collected someone up the backside/near misses. As I was doing nearly 100k miles a year, I was always making a mental note of what the braking spec was on the cars around me and making allowances accordingly. I've had a few cars with no ABS and in emergencies always rapidly pumped the brake pedal emulating ABS so getting the brakes to work at their most efficient, rather than just lock them up.

George, as always, makes some excellent points.... good thought provokers. In my case, and the first step that lead to a good debate with George, was that I had just taken delivery of a new +8 in early 2002. On the first proper run out (whisky Tour in Scotland) I managed to warp the front discs. They were changed (eventually but that's another tale of grief after the factory told the dealer to just change one!) and within days warped again...... enough of this so I went to see and meet for the first time Peter Mulberry of Mulfab as they were just a few miles form home.

Peter and I hit it off immediately, he explained that the standard discs were very suspect if you drove hard and that they often warped, he went on to say the racers cant use vented discs in some classes so have 'warped' discs reground and then the problem goes away so he said I could always have my OE discs surface ground. However I spotted one of his 300mm vented disc kits on the bench and the rest is history.

After fitting I immediately felt there was more 'feel' in the brake system and that lock ups, not that I had a problem with that, were likely to be a lot less. I had in the past been on the end of some very intensive brake training, after winning a Motoring News championship light years ago the prize was a 3 day course at the Ford Rally School where one of the modules was on braking and the instructor Gunnar Palm (works driver and World Cup Rally winner) so cadence braking and keeping OFF the pedal was embedded. I do recall to this day his argument that we are all taught to brake incorrectly..... we brake gently at first and then increase the pedal pressure as the car slows down where the reverse is whats required.... brake hard at first and back off the pressure as the vehicle (mass) slows. anyway, my style when pressing on is to brake little and late but when I do I really start with high pedal pressure and back off to almost nothing on turn in and this is tough on the discs and I think why the poor quality OE discs warped. I never had an issue with Peter M's vented discs from the moment they were fitted, they are still on the car today with no reports of issues as I know the current owner.

The other thing about the 300mm kit is it moves the caliper away from the center of rotation and as I am just a hairy backed mechanic will probably use the wrong words but to me that increases the 'leverage' that the brake pad has, if that's true to my way of thinking does the friction pad need less clamping load to effect the same retardation???? Answers on a postcard....answers to www.iknowalltheorybutcantputanutonabolt.com

From that fateful meeting i wrote a batch of fitting instructions for Peter, got involved in several products being developed and tested (I just did the fitting, all the brains were Peters) and ended up with a +8 that had all Mulfabs toys fitted that cornered on rails and would back into bends with just a flick and lots of right pedal.....lovely!

I think George may have thought I was daft at times but it was a lot of fun learning and playing to see just how much a road car with manners could be pushed without it being undriveable.

The only Morgan I have ever driven that locked the fronts up unexpectedly was a surprise, it was the 4/4 Sport. Very light and over braked at the front, such a light front end didnt need the Caparo set up as it tended to grab rather than retard..... Had i kept the car I would have reduced the front brake pad area to see if that resolved it.

BR
Colin

A really interesting read - thanks for posting
As a duffer on the mechanical front, I enjoyed reading that
Cheers
HB

Never for a fraction of a millisecond did I ever think you were "daft" Colin, I learned a great deal from you over the years on eMog, the only problem is trying to remember any of it today...

I have managed to avoid warping my "original" front discs, but then I never was able to push on quite as could you...and these days I suspect it might be unusual to get ANY heat in the discs, even on a hot day...

I can attest to this. Colin's ability to make progress is enormously greater than mine too.

ROFL…. But I struggle with basic stuff like posting photos….

Another (I think) really good quote from Gunnar Palm that went home with me “Being fast is not about driving at high speed, it’s all about never driving slow”.

There is a lovely bit of Swedish logic in there ;-).

BR
Colin (who is very slow these days!)

I suspect that the braking effects have a great deal to do with the weight or lack of it with our Morgans. We tend to glide along the surface and going at the speed the driver was doing any braking prowess would not work in the distance he left himself to stop in.

Might he not have been able to get onto the grass though if he'd not panicked and kept his foot planted?
Nick