Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 Lithium Batteries

Has anyone gone down the lithium battery route ?

If so which make?

They are a fraction of the weight, perform better and have extended life compared to lead acid equivalents.

The Caterham guys use the Powerlite PS-20 which will fit the original battery tray and has over 400 C/A.

Yes, I've been using a JMT YTX30-FP for 5 years now. No complaints (apart from the cost...) it just works and works well.

There is a whole section about batteries that fit the M3W in the Alternative Parts List, linked from the resources section at the top of this forum, some Lithium Ion ones included. Several of us have used Magneti Marelli 53034 batteries successfully for several years, mine is about 6 years old and still going well, very glad it is as it wasn't cheap! Others have used the JMT or EarthX. Many of these Lithium Ion batteries seem to be discontinued or in short supply at the moment. The PS30 looks like it would fit with some slightly taller retaining studs and has 800CCA, you could have a Hybrid M3W with that 😁.

Satisfied customer of a https://www.gobatteries.co.uk/produ...ium-motorcycle-battery-lifepo4-yb30cl-b/

Good advice in http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/341496/1, http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/411066/, and maybe others

Wonder where you read about the extended life compared to lead/acid.

Tesla I believe guarantee 80% capacity after 8 years. They are able to offer this because they double the 100% capacity ex factory and initially charge to 80% of this and discharge to 30% gradually scaling the range up until using 100% of remaining capacity. Clever eh!

Richard V6

I spent 7 years of my life dealing with lead / acid failures on stand by battery banks due to poor charging design and lack of maintenance, it matters when your in the middle of the ocean and the emergency lighting doesn't work during a main engine failure.

Yes some of us read but others have hands on knowledge.

I agree poor usage regimes can certainly ruin a lead/acid battery, and in as little as 6 months or so. The comments you made though concerned Lithium batteries. Hopefully their longevity will improve but my experience with the smaller ones used in phones, laptops and vacuum cleaners confirms what I've read, that being that a Li-Ion battery can loose up to 40% of its capacity in the first year. Where they do excel though is in charge and discharge rates which can exceed lead/acid by a factor of 100 or more.

To be fair, a badly designed charging system and persistent neglect isn't a systemic fault of lead/acid batteries .... any more than a catastrophic (and unputoutable ) fire caused by improper charging is a systemic fault of lithium batteries.

I use both .... lithium in my racecar and lead in my road car .... lithiums are astoundingly light (even compared with an expensive 'race' lead battery) .... although lithiums have great cranking amps (when I first got it I couldn't believe anything that physically insubstantial would spin the engine over reliably ... but it does) ... they tend to be low on Ah .... so if your motor doesn't start and needs repeated cranking while investigating, they don't have much reserve in the bank .... similarly if the lights are left on while an older car is parked ... or some other drain is left on they can go flat quite quickly ... the Lithium also charges quickly, but that doesn't help if you're twenty miles from your charger in a dark car park.

They both have their points and both benefit from proper care and charging.

K

Indeed, Tesla never actually state the absolute capacity of the battery in Kwh. They talk about available capacity which is not overly helpful as no one charges to 100% and runs to zero.. zero isn't really zero, there are a few % left. There is no doubt that Tesla batters have undisclosed capacity which the battery management software can make available. I don't believe that the batters have double the nominal capacity as there are not enough cells in the battery packs, but they certainly have some spare. Tesla battery management software is at the heart of their remarkable battery performance, both charging and discharging. The packs work at a nominal 400v, but mostly between 300v and 350v.

The battery in my Tesla M3, made in China, is a nominal 75kwh, with it is believed 72kwh available. I don't let it discharge below 5% and normally not below 10% and I normally charge to 85% on a 240v 32A A/C charger. But it can be charged at a Tesla Supercharger at 400v, 250kw DC. On such a charger, arriving with 6% it charges at 350kwh and claims to be adding 1000 miles range an hour. The charge rate slows and at 85% it is charging at about 75kwh. To get from 6% to 85% takes 40 mins and leaves me with a range of about 300 miles.
Using Superchargers does shorten battery life, but by how much is unclear. If you set the navigation software to take you to a supercharger the car pre-conditions the battery so it can be charged at a high rate: in winter it uses battery capacity to heat the battery.

As far as Li batteries in ICE cars are concerned, I'm not convinced that charging them from an alternator would be optimal, some form of software interface would be essential.

Well we will have to see what comes out of the woodwork on the back of the electric vehicle revolution, both to achieve longevity and range.