Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Plus Four, Supersport & Plus Six (CX & CXV Generation Vehicles) Safety Recall - Brakes

It's going to take longer to get the fix sorted than it is to build another car, so reject them as unsuitable, and get another one as & when..?

Latest from Krazy Horse. Hopefully good news.

Dear CX owners



Firstly sorry for not sending this email at the start of the week as I usually do. I have been waiting for a call today with Morgan.



I have now had this call and can give you the following update. I have been told that Morgan intend to start supplying dealers with upgrade components next week, we are therefore starting to look at the logistics of collecting car’s and planning our workshops.



To clarify the situation, car’s that have not previously had a radiator issue will be rectified at KrazyHorse, cars that have had a radiator replaced previously will be rectified at Morgan. Morgan have arranged for a logistics company to collect all of the latter car’s directly and Krazyhorse will collect all of the others. It will be useful for us and Morgan if anyone has access issues for collection, to let us know so we can, between us and Morgan find the best way to collect the car’s.



The components that will be changed at KrazyHorse will be the master cylinder and a new swirl chamber for the cooling system. This will take around 4 hours per car. Car’s at Morgan will also have a new radiator fitted which as it requires removing the wings and cowl will take longer.



There will be an official email coming directly to all CX owners from Morgan, I was hoping it would be today but you should see it tomorrow.



I would like to thank you once again for your patience, we at KrazyHorse are doing everything we can to get this resolved as quickly as possible.

So the dealer can't spell plural of cars correctly, either!

I have seen a number of cars having the cooling system changes while conducting tours.

Thanks for that update John - I guess your chum down there got his through KH who appear to be good at comms…

It is annoying that on one hand my usual dealership sent me the email last Thursday which spoke about separate contact from the car collection company to transport my Mog to MMC, and yesterday MMC sent me an email saying they are still validating the solution in preparation for stuff to go to the dealers for them to fix. I realise it’s a standard email from MMC but if they know I’ve got a CX they should also have the detail of which dealership mine went through and, I would assume in this modern computer world, some knowledge that they’ve told my dealer that my car has to go to MMC for fixing…. I realise MMC is a small company but the contradiction in info coming to me is simply adding to my annoyance at yet another problem (one of at least seven noteworthy things over the past 16 months which have needed resolution where poss, speakers in the front still can’t be heard-grrrr) with my costly vehicle (i appreciate all v minor in the grand scheme of things going wrong in this world)…
I retired last year, in part, to spend more time in Belle and, as others have pointed out, I am missing out on the best months of the year for driving her.
I should add I went into mog ownership with eyes wide open in respect of “they all do that sir” with my Trad but hoped with the higher cost and more modern approach to things for the CX that it wouldn’t be as frustrating….
I love Morgan cars but the lustre is not as shiny as it was once and my inexplicable need to defend them against criticism from outsiders is being sorely tested…
I won’t be going anywhere regardless (because of that deep seated passion) (plus I’m not allowed to drive at present) but am currently residing as “Deeply Frustrated, just North of Stamford”.
#rantmodeoffagain
HB

A new one?

Not you Simon the other simon. Gary is trying to get a new log in but without success

Porosity from casting is an ever present problem to be checked for. Different processes are used for different metals/alloys and end use requirements.
Turbine blades for jet engines used to be cast by he investment ( lost wax) method and 100% inspected. They had a high failure rate.
Rimming steel, as made in bulk for rolling to thin sections ( car bodies, white goods) needed the initial outer layer solidifying cleanly and directionally so chilling was one method to speed up that. The body of the ingot ( the last to solidify) was encouraged to effervesce and allow gases to escape. Subsequent rolling welded up the remaining internal porosity. Any porosity at the surface would simply split open during rolling.
We made engineering steels and used surface crack detection and ultrasonic methods for sub surface defect detection. This allowed us to prevent any suspect batches getting through that would compromise future use/safety.
Cast metals can also carry over impurities from the melting/refining. Microscopic examination is used to identify this type of thing. A scale of cleanliness is used to evaluate it. Compare what you see down the microscope to standard photographs.
The bottom line is stipulating the manufacturing process and quality standard to apply. The more safety critical the tighter the requirements. Finishing techniques for a cast item must be in place to ensure it doesn’t carry over defects.
One thing to notice is when a supplier describes a product as “ machined from billet stock”. This means the item has been rolled ( usually) to change the internal structure away from cast to a wrought one. A stronger, less defect prone product and with some enhanced directional properties.
Lining a brake cylinder with a suitable material is a sensible option that reduces the need for enhanced casting requirements. Accept a level of “ defect” and counter it. Reduces initial casting cost/ intricacy with a more robust finish and hopefully cheaper.

Just spoken to MMC. Two brake master cylinder products are in the final stages of trialling before being confirmed as the fix. Cars with previously reported radiator issues will go to the factory to have the cooling system addressed at the same time as the braking system. A logistics firm called Acumen will be in contact with affected owners. My name and car were on the list from Williams. If you're affected, it may be worth confirming with your dealer that they've given MMC your most up to date contact details (MMC had the incorrect address for me). They're expecting to get cars into the factory from 18 July.

With starting too much thread drift, can anyone answer this question? I thought that the introduction of dual circuit brakes (in the 60s/70s?) was supposed to provide redundancy in case of brake failure in modern cars, so improving the safety of the design. (I certainly remember a master brake failure in my mother's Renault 12 in the early 70s removing just about all of the braking capability. But we still drove it the dealer - I guess using the handbrake - it was only a few miles). If the failure of the master cylinder is a single point of failure in both supposedly redundant brake circuits, isn't that a significant weakness in the design? Dual circuit brakes do provide some level of braking if a single wheel cylinder fails and fluid is lost from one of the brake circuits of course, but it is a bit disappointing if there is not full redundancy.

Does a modern master cylinder have dual pistons and keep the two brake circuits completely independent, thus providing redundancy? Or, can the seals in the master cylinder fail in such a way there is a total loss of braking capability ?

Just curious......

I suspect your thinking re dual circuit brakes would in past times have most folk still running their cars, but in these litigous times there seems little chance that folk can evaluate risks to any degree as wee might have in past times..? Dual circuit brakes tend to start off with a master cylinder supply tank that is split into two seperate sections each section feeding it`s half of the braking system via seperate inputs to the master cylinder. The master cylinder is usually operated by one pushrod acting on both circuits. the pistons are linked one behind the other each with it`s own seal, thus two seals acting on the cylinder.
With the system split in this way enven if one system fails to the extent that all the fluid leaks out the other system should still operate with it`s seperate fluid supply.

If there is an internal failing in the master cylinder as in the brake pedal might feel softer than usual, if possible take the lid of the master cylinder and while looking in then have someone apply the brakes hard and check to see if there is any disturbance on the surface of the brake fluid.... Usually if a seal is failing tsome of the he pressure applied to the master cylinder can escape back past a failing seal to cause disturbance as described...

Hope this helps and does not muddy the water... I am NO expert.