Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Roadster 3.0 sump

Now a steel sump sounds a damn good idea with the extra ground clearance and capacity adjusted.
Do provide some feedback when you have tested it out on the road.

I see nothing on this site but help from Simon - no bitching whatsoever - and I have no connection with either Mulfab or Simon!!

There would certainly be interest in a nicely turned out steel sump, but the complex shape doesn't make it easy. It's not a conventional bathtub shape at the rear.

If it was a simple build it would have been done already. It's 18 years since the first Roadsters were put together!

Not just that, but the standard sump uses a simple rubber seal in a channel cut into the sump flange. The Mondeo version uses a metal/rubber composite spacer gasket on a sump which is the same shape but a much thinner flange.

So a steel sump with a conventional turned over flange will probably need a paper gasket. Something to watch out for if it works out.

Do you mean "theirs"?

Yes this steel sump will be an interesting project to watch for the Roadster owners in particular, it should be a lot more forgiving than the alloy one's and Mulfab have been around quite a while now.

I don't have a foot in either camp but judge the products on results only but I don't care for the snide comments or innuendo at the moment as both outfits serve the Morgan community well don't they and as such are very rare, keep smiling if we play nicely it makes for an easier life for the TM Boss..

I mentioned in an earlier post that Mulfab estimated it would be c.£1000, which would put me off.

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Peter and I spoke of this Roadster issue many times..still do on occasion. His cutting down of the Roadster sump created more precious clearance but it was never THE ideal solution.

BTW, the Rover Plus 8s had the same problem..but worse. 3" clearance under the sump. But the Morgan LR/Rover sumps were made of steel. Steel merely dents. Cast aluminum cracks and shatters. When LR moved to cast aluminum, the MMC, wiser then than later, rejected them and continued fitting the older 3.9 steel sumps (the best of lot from the point of view of clearance and capacity). When a steel sump dents, you merely bang it out with a wood 2x2 and a big hammer. I have 2 sumps, one waiting for its turn again and the other on the car. After a few times, changing a sump can be done in under 30 minutes. Once the could be had on ebay for 10 quid. Now I have seen them offered for 100s.

A steel sump is the only common sense solution assuming it is stamped rather than welded (which still may allow it to split at the seams but I would still take a welded steel sump over a aluminum one!). Cast aluminum may be cheaper for the manufacturer but they should NEVER be used in a low slung sports car. Is the added "wings" necessary to oil capacity? That being said, a greater oil capacity is a good thing...I have an oil temperature gauge and it runs coolers with a higher capacity sump and more oil.

Skid plates merely make the clearance problem worse. No logic. And if they abut the cast sump, they merely create a MUCH larger area of low clearance which INCREASES THE IMPACT AREA and can transfer impact to the sump anyway. Try a test. Take a metal can, and whack it with a one tonne hammer (weight of a Roadster). Now take an identical can, place a thick piece of aluminum plate on it, and whack it with the same hammer. (shrug) QED!, Those who point out that they have a large space between skid plate and sump are merely saying they made the clearance even way less!

What I have seen so far for Morgan skid plates (shutter) also weigh down the car and cause unmeasured prejudice the all-important engine airflow dynamics. The Morgan Roadster skid plates I have seen look like a child fashioned them. Many users of the engine, even those with MUCH larger clearance, use smarter skid plates to protect the eggshell sump. Theirs are made of shaped plastic or steel. If you DO go the skid plate route, you want them made of material that will absorb impacts, and shaped to allow airflow. Merely google Ford Escape or Mondeo skid plate and look at the images. https://bit.ly/3CmxHpd Their are Chinese companies advertising the manufacture of steel stamped sumps for 8-15 USD each on large orders. And as we can see, the market for them is much larger than only Morgans. The best designer would be Peter Mulberry, if he can be convinced

But a stamped steel sump is the ultimate goal. You would think that this grave problem for Roadsters would have prompted the Morgan community or the Factory to give out a wholesale contract for a bespoke Roadster stamped steel sump by now, but the world has changed. 18 years of Roadsters and only second class solutions! 😭 No place has had a collegiate discussion and these days, once one person has done something ...er... less than ideal, everyone follows the pictures they post like lemmings. 🙁

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I don't think of myself dealing with companies. 🙁 I deal with people. 😁 So I know little about Mulfab since our dear Peter retired. Those who know him will agree that Peter is one of the finest sorts they have ever met, blessed with a knack for component design, exquisite skills and conscientiousness, a rarity. (forgive me I am biased!) As for Simon, the manner in which he left Peter leaves him no reason to complain about others.

Please forgive me for being blunt. Mechanics is not a exercise where clarity should be obscured by anything, even misdirected courtesy. We are, after all, only amateurs trying to keep ourselves and our Morgans running as problem free as we can.

Lorne

I've got 105mm clearance under my Plus 8 sump with 205/55 R16 tyres.

My 1993 Plus 8 on 15" 70 section tyres had 100mm clearance, so ground clearance has never been a problem for me unlike the 4/4 Sport which got the crossmember clouted several times.

Lorne,

Can you explain to everyone why and how I left Mulfab
Your version of events is probably very different to what actually happened

Hi Richard!

Thanks for the input. In the mid-1980s, Plus 8s inexplicably changed from 5 leafs at the rear to 6, and (from memory) your 1999 front springs are not the same as most Plus 8s which could go to explain the extra inch at the cost of a considerably less compliant ride. And I use Plus 4 SS springs in front as did most Plus 8s. And there are other factors to compare. For example I sport stock 60R15s, which theoretically have the same overall diameter but an extra inch of air rather than than hard steel.

But we should be dealing with a Roadster issue, not Plus 8s.

Here is an observation for you that should catch your eye. We both have 2-3 times the difference you allege between us in less clearance than Roadsters if Factory figures can be believed. https://bit.ly/3ckDkK3 And Plus 8s weigh the same as a Roadsters. So logic suggests WE hit our sumps far more than they do. Yet you say you have no clearance problem. Hitting a well-shaped stamped out steel sump is very different from hitting an oddly shaped cast aluminum sump. Sliding off a rounded steel sump or mildly denting it (or leaving a small scratch) does not grab your attention as much as suddenly crash-shattering or cracking a cast sump, and losing your entire engine oil supply instantly with otherwise identical impacts is easier to remember. Examine your sump for scratches and small dents.

In any event, perhaps someone will finally organize a Roadster steel sump solution with an online sump maker. This has been going on for 18 years and the market for it goes far beyond Morgan. How difficult it is to organize 100 owners? We were able to do such not-for-profit things 20 years ago in a couple of days. Roadster owners need it.

Lorne
1984 Plus 8 (blue on blue) (stock)
1990 Plus 8 (sapphire blue) (stock)
2002 Plus 8 (blue on blue) one-off Factory bespoke

P.S. I found the new Plus 4s (later 2000s variant) would bottom frequently at the bulkhead cross member as well. And all trads bottom more frequently as their leaf springs sag and are not changed. Wish a reliable leaf spring maker can be found. Can't expect the Works to find one any more.
P.P.S. I re-checked. Steel sumps should cost less than cast aluminum sumps. Supposedly the latter are lighter..but I have not found that to be the case unless structural strength is sacrificed and in this case, they present a grave risk. Had the same issue with my wife's etype..which had a aluminum sump the size of a spa. https://bit.ly/3dTJt0j