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Aug 24th, 2023
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 26
Just Getting Started
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Just Getting Started
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 26 |
Before driving CX car which has not been fitted with the approved replacement brake cylinder etc I respectfully suggest you look up the offence of driving dangerously. As I understand the relevant law if I drive my CX knowing it has a dangerous defect as indicated by the recall notice and the emails/letters from MMC I would be guilty of the offence whether or not my insurers said I was insured. I have no desire to be disqualified or fined and/or suffer other penalty (it would be difficult to avoid custody if death or serious injury was caused by a brake failure).
I am therefore very concerned about the position. If anyone out there has a contrary view t suggest he or she obtains advice in writing from a competent solicitor.
For further details please see my earlier posts
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,415
Has a lot to Say!
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Has a lot to Say!
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,415 |
According to the government website this is merely a Safety Recall, NOT a stop/drive; this is the advice from DVLA: Safety Recall: 'The definition of a safety defect is met, but the threat is not immediate or can be mitigated with ‘reasonable’ consumer action'. In short it suggests sensible precautions by the driver, but the car can be driven; especially to the dealership for repairs. Certainly, an inspection of the master cylinder fluid would be wise before every trip. If RichP6 is correct, then rather a lot of egg on Morgan's face. I wonder if whoever at MMC decided to 'up the anti' is now regretting that. Will heads roll? As I understand it- there have been catastrophic- no warning - complete brake failures on a number of CX models... Do you want to take the risk? I don't take risks. Of any sort. But from what I am told, there has been only one brake failure (maybe 2. As the problem is a slow degradation of the seal, it is unlikely IMHO that a catastrophic failure will occur unless one does not check the brake fluid before every trip. Of course, that could apply to any car, no matter what the make. The crux is: is one insured? I will ask my insurance company tomorrow. If I am insured AND my brake fluid is ok, I will drive. I Have a slightly different relationship with the factory than most, and I know of at least 2 complete failures Checking the fluid level will give no indication of potential failure. The internal seals failing will mean that a braking circuit is unpressurised when the pedal is pressed. There will be no signs of fluid loss…
Simon @ Sifab.co.uk
Sifabtemporary@gmail.com
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,068 Likes: 21
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,068 Likes: 21 |
According to the government website this is merely a Safety Recall, NOT a stop/drive; this is the advice from DVLA: Safety Recall: 'The definition of a safety defect is met, but the threat is not immediate or can be mitigated with ‘reasonable’ consumer action'. In short it suggests sensible precautions by the driver, but the car can be driven; especially to the dealership for repairs. Certainly, an inspection of the master cylinder fluid would be wise before every trip. If RichP6 is correct, then rather a lot of egg on Morgan's face. I wonder if whoever at MMC decided to 'up the anti' is now regretting that. Will heads roll? As I understand it- there have been catastrophic- no warning - complete brake failures on a number of CX models... Do you want to take the risk? I don't take risks. Of any sort. But from what I am told, there has been only one brake failure (maybe 2. As the problem is a slow degradation of the seal, it is unlikely IMHO that a catastrophic failure will occur unless one does not check the brake fluid before every trip. Of course, that could apply to any car, no matter what the make. The crux is: is one insured? I will ask my insurance company tomorrow. If I am insured AND my brake fluid is ok, I will drive. I Have a slightly different relationship with the factory than most, and I know of at least 2 complete failures
Checking the fluid level will give no indication of potential failure. The internal seals failing will mean that a braking circuit is unpressurised when the pedal is pressed. There will be no signs of fluid loss…Now that is a worry.....
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 26,759 Likes: 424
Member of the Inner Circle
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Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 26,759 Likes: 424 |
Hence the recall I guess. I doubt MMC did it for nothing but now it seems cars are being fixed
JohnV6
2022 CX Plus Four
2025 MG ZS EV aka Trigger
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,530 Likes: 37
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,530 Likes: 37 |
I would not knock MMC for issuing the notice in this modern and litigious world what else could they have done? In fact some of the earlier postings prove me right....
99 plus 8 indigo
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 91 Likes: 1
Just Getting Started
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Just Getting Started
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 91 Likes: 1 |
I’m disappointed to read comments made by both owners and non-owners of the CX cars on the current problems.
Over the years I have been fortunate enough to own Morgans from a 1939 4/4 through to our present First Edition Plus Six – one of the first 50 cars. We had a 2017/18 Plus 4 automatic (conversion by Vittese) along with the Plus Six. The Plus 4 was a delight to drive but when compared with the Plus Six it was not even on the same page. When I collected the P6 on arrival and drove on the expressway I could not believe it was a Morgan! The handling and ride was so improved. With the 2018 Plus4 after 100 miles of driving and I was well shaken and ready for a rest, whereas in the P6 I can drive 300 miles and be ready to go out for the evening.
Yes I knew from day One that the brakes were soft and rather suspect, and this replacement is only doing what I would have done myself
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And yes I know that the suspension springs and dampers are quietly failing and the ride height dropping such that we drag on bumps in the road. And that I’m about to replace them with new coil over damper units from SSL
All this will only go to make a very good Morgan into an incredible Morgan!
2019 First Edition Plus Six Moonstone Blue
Prev
2017 Plus 4 Auto Ivory
2011 4/4 Grey
1939 4-4 Blue
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,068 Likes: 21
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,068 Likes: 21 |
I’m disappointed to read comments made by both owners and non-owners of the CX cars on the current problems.
Over the years I have been fortunate enough to own Morgans from a 1939 4/4 through to our present First Edition Plus Six – one of the first 50 cars. We had a 2017/18 Plus 4 automatic (conversion by Vittese) along with the Plus Six. The Plus 4 was a delight to drive but when compared with the Plus Six it was not even on the same page. When I collected the P6 on arrival and drove on the expressway I could not believe it was a Morgan! The handling and ride was so improved. With the 2018 Plus4 after 100 miles of driving and I was well shaken and ready for a rest, whereas in the P6 I can drive 300 miles and be ready to go out for the evening.
Yes I knew from day One that the brakes were soft and rather suspect, and this replacement is only doing what I would have done myself
.
And yes I know that the suspension springs and dampers are quietly failing and the ride height dropping such that we drag on bumps in the road. And that I’m about to replace them with new coil over damper units from SSL
All this will only go to make a very good Morgan into an incredible Morgan!
Wow, so beside the brake recall, the suspension on your new Plus 6 is also failing...
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,666 Likes: 43
Talk Morgan Addict
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Talk Morgan Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,666 Likes: 43 |
I’m disappointed to read comments made by both owners and non-owners of the CX cars on the current problems.
Over the years I have been fortunate enough to own Morgans from a 1939 4/4 through to our present First Edition Plus Six – one of the first 50 cars. We had a 2017/18 Plus 4 automatic (conversion by Vittese) along with the Plus Six. The Plus 4 was a delight to drive but when compared with the Plus Six it was not even on the same page. When I collected the P6 on arrival and drove on the expressway I could not believe it was a Morgan! The handling and ride was so improved. With the 2018 Plus4 after 100 miles of driving and I was well shaken and ready for a rest, whereas in the P6 I can drive 300 miles and be ready to go out for the evening.
Yes I knew from day One that the brakes were soft and rather suspect, and this replacement is only doing what I would have done myself
.
And yes I know that the suspension springs and dampers are quietly failing and the ride height dropping such that we drag on bumps in the road. And that I’m about to replace them with new coil over damper units from SSL
All this will only go to make a very good Morgan into an incredible Morgan!
So you're happy to describe a new car costing around 100k with failing brakes and suspension that has sagged immediately enough to cause grounding problems " a very good Morgan"? And you're disappointed that other owners don't share your view? Wow. Maybe several radiators later......
Last edited by nick w; 27/07/22 11:02 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 251 Likes: 14
Learner Plates Off!
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Learner Plates Off!
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 251 Likes: 14 |
Is it possible to say a little bit more about the nature of the 'complete failures' ?
Were both braking circuits affected - ie was it a total loss of brakes on all four wheels. (only leaving the parking brake, which I would imagine would be virtually no use in de-accelerating the car)?
Or was it just one of the dual circuits that failed, leaving some braking available on two wheels (but with the possibility that the other circuit might also fail at any time) ?
I guess the question I'm asking is, just how good is the redundancy in modern cars with dual braking circuits ?
Dave
Blue 4/4 1969, Green +4 1953, (different) Green +8 1977
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 91 Likes: 2
Just Getting Started
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Just Getting Started
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 91 Likes: 2 |
Is it possible to say a little bit more about the nature of the 'complete failures' ?
Were both braking circuits affected - ie was it a total loss of brakes on all four wheels. (only leaving the parking brake, which I would imagine would be virtually no use in de-accelerating the car)?
Or was it just one of the dual circuits that failed, leaving some braking available on two wheels (but with the possibility that the other circuit might also fail at any time) ?
I guess the question I'm asking is, just how good is the redundancy in modern cars with dual braking circuits ?
A point I have often wondered about. Since the introduction of twin brake circuits, many years ago, I though it very unlikely (if not impossible) to get a total brake failure. SimonH states that even if the brake master cylinder is full, one can still get a catastrophic failure. Would an expert please explain how.
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