Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Plus Four, Supersport & Plus Six (CX & CXV Generation Vehicles) Safety Recall - Brakes

I do wonder how many would.

You might change your mind, if you have to pay for the radiators.

Somewhat related we paid last year to have a new EGR valve fitted to our 5+ year old Mini Cooper D. We were told correctly it cures the common fault of initial hesitency when accelerating from lowish revs, but not to worry further as this part has a three year warranty.

Interestingly the car is booked in for software update recall involving control of EGR valve to prevent premature failure

It would be useful to compile a list from this thread of the number of CX owners who have experienced problems since the modification of the cooling system with dates of such events and also details of the changes to the cooling system in the 2023 specification of CX vehicle (in particular the specification of any new radiator).
As regards the guarantee and replacements made pursuant to it, Deejay is probably right but there will be other express or implied terms which will assist at least as regards any replacement radiator proving faulty after the end of the two year period. A problem is likely to arise if the original radiator fails after the expiry of the two year period. It is for this reason that I suggested on this thread earlier that the guarantee should be extended for two years from the date of the fitting of the swill bin. However, if any problem arises do not rely on me but seek competent advice.
Another matter which some may wish to consider is the effect of the relevant legislation relating to unfair contract terms on the terms of the existing warranty.
All the above would have been avoided if MMC had used some common sense in relation to customer relations.
I have received the same letter from the Chairman of MSSC to which I have replied. I stated that certain inferences could be drawn as to the position of MMC but I do not wish to add fuel to the fire so I quote below an edited version:-

“My CX model Plusfour was modified at the beginning of October 2022 with the approved kit (new swill bin and new master cylinder both with ancillary parts all supplied by the Morgan Motor Company (MMC). This work was done by [name -A] a MMC agent of high repute.
I was aware at the time that some CX Plusfour were fitted with new radiators both at the Morgan factory and at MMC Agents. I was assured unequivocally by [A] when the above work was done that the radiator on my Plusfour did not require replacement - I assumed that there were special factors relating to the other Plusfours where radiators were replaced and this assurance was based on reliable information provided by MMC to [A] and consequently could be relied upon.
Last week my vehicle was serviced by [A] (it has been driven barely 300 miles since the modification). I was informed that the radiator was leaking and would be replaced under guarantee. [A] are presently awaiting the delivery of a new radiator and have told me that MMC are indicating tentatively 25th January.
Your email of the 15th indicates that my experience has been shared by other purchasers of CX vehicles.
……………………………the execution of the improvements was a representation that all that was necessary was being done.
It will be interesting to ask (a task for MSCC) other owners of CX vehicles when the radiator started to leak and when MMC became aware of this problem in relation to the fitting of the swill bin.
……………………………………………………….
The situation will cause great concern to CX drivers with the original radiators planning journeys Spring and Summer 2023 particularly if they intend drive on the Continent, Ireland or remote parts of the UK. It appears that a radiator may develop a leak without warning whether or not a swill bin has been fitted.
I had not noticed any leak but this may be explained by the fact that my vehicle is kept in a garage and within a Carcoon with dehumidifying characteristics. Accordingly there will be other owners who start using their Plusfour in Spring due for an unpleasant surprise when the vehicle is taken out of the garage for the first time.
With respect you will be in error if you regard the proposed meeting as other than an opportunity to express in clear terms that there is at least one and probably other purchasers of CX vehicles who now say on substantial grounds that MMC are producing unreliable CX vehicles and that is becoming a reputation attached to the marque enhanced by not being frank and open about MMC's difficulties with cooling system. I remark that most publicity videos demonstrate new CX models with left hand drive and are presumably aimed at the US and European markets where this reputation will do serious harm to sales.
In other words at any meeting you must be blunt and specific.”

I suppose that the above letter reflects my building frustration, I have concern also for other owners of CX vehicles who may find leaks after any extended warranty period expires (particularly those who are not members of the MSCC and have not been notified by MMC of the additional problem).
The Chairman has replied promptly to my email saying his intervention is for the benefit of MSCC members. He tells me that he has received a response from 80 members and the radiator issue is the one most often mentioned. Whether such issues relate to radiator leaks appearing after a swill bin has been fitted is not stated.
The Chairman also states that he disassociates himself from the inferences I draw about MMC and does not indorse the same. I have responded to this comment. Others may agree with the Chairman. The adverse and critical inferences I draw are from circumstances within my knowledge. I readily accept that there may be other circumstances which show I am mistaken. Hence the omissions from the copy of my letter above but i hold firm for the present. Further others may disagree with me on other substantial grounds but an open and frank explanation from MMC would assist.
MMC seem to have created a mess in circumstances where the financial implications may not be substantial (see the earlier analyses in this thread of recent accounts for MMC). Notwithstanding this the protection of a loyal customer base should be paramount and it seems to me that at the very least MMC are falling short.
I find the whole situation depressing and my loyalty to the Morgan Marque tested. I await with interest the results of the Chairman’s efforts with MMC but I am not optimistic.

During a discussion late last year with an agent of our local MMC dealers I was told the brief from MMC regarding radiators during the brake recall/swirl pot addition was to replace if leaking at the time or if the vehicle had a history of previous failures (four or more are not unknown). Those that had never failed were to be left untouched

Did you mean swirl pot rather than swill bin?

In seriousness, I hope the rad fix works for you and you get to enjoy your CX.

I am reminded of a situation back in 2008 / 2009 when I owned a Porsche 911 Turbo which developed an oil leak, which can be a serious problem on this car. It was fixed under warranty and I was told by the dealer if the warranty had not been in place my bill would have been £9k.
10 months later it failed again, this time out of warranty. I fully expected the repair to be put right FOC but I was told repair work paid for was guaranteed for 2 years, work done under warranty was not and this was standard across the motor industry. I was hit for £6k. It all got sorted in the end when I lodged a formal complaint with Porsche U.K. over this and several other issues, but this does concern me if MMC take the same attitude with the CX radiators.
I also remain very concerned about the possible effect on resale values any further issues may cause.

I am afraid that CX cars will always have 'they have poor brakes and leaky radiator' moniker from now for the rest of time...a tag that Alfa and Lancia had for rusty panels?

On my car my2020 the brakes are better and this week i will ask to bleed them again . I suppose the cars my2023 with ap racing brakes will be very good .

it would be useful if there was a list of those CX owners who

1. Have had the swirl pot fitted having had a replacement radiator and have suffered a further leak with approx mileages at each such event
2. Have had a swirl pot fitted but have not suffered a leak at any time with mileage as above;
3 Have a swirl pot fitted and have subsequently suffered a leak with mileages as above;

This could be done by owners reporting to this site

The above three categories are mutually exclusive and the reporting owner should specify whether the report is in respect of a Plus 6 or a Plusfour. On this basis (subject to the comments of an expert motor engineer experienced in cooling systems) a picture will emerge as to the degree of risk of further trouble - it seems doubtful that MMC will assist with the provision of such lists but a representative picture (a ballot poll) will emerge if reports are made by the CX owners using this site. Such lists would also reflect what is happening in fairly clear terms so that MMC can have a definitive case put to it as to future action. It may be that someone (not me) will set up a specific reporting site to deal with this. With respect we are all short of detail in relation to this leak problem.

It would also assist if an experienced motor engineer would explain how given that a swirl pot was thought to be the answer to the problem of leaking radiators what the reasoning (if any) will explain why MMC do not apparently regard the radiators themselves as defective as distinct from there being a problem with they whole of the system. I am not an engineer and i have not difficulty in understanding why swirl pots are fitted to fuel lines but the link between swirl pots and leaking radiators (some but not all apparently) is a mystery to me unless it is a sudden increase in pressure problem which should affect all CX models.

I think a clear explanation in relation to the above would assist many but in any event please have patience with my ignorance on such practical matters.