Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Scuttle to lower screen seal!

I'm sure it's here somewhere but I haven't been able to find any answers. Firstly I know there are issues with this seal mainly due to variable profiles of screens and or scuttle shape. I have a 2010 plus 4 and both the outer edges of the screen seal towards the pillars for say 75mm towards the centre of the scuttle (ie. outer edges) are not touching the bodywork and the outer extreme's by the pillars is actually rolling under the screen trim. If you lift the rubber section which should be touching and sealing to the scuttle (although this isn't in contact with the body} there is a huge gap between the rubber below the screen and the scuttle corner radiuses. When driving in rain all the water which travels along the front bodywork and that which runs off the screen flows down the scuttle sides each side of the screen and enters through these gaps onto the internal dash corners and flows like a waterfall into the interior of the car down the door front edges. These are not just drips but more like taps have been turned on!
I wondered if anyone has managed to find an effective solution, perhaps cutting closed cell foam to fill the gap and sticking/sealing it in place to fill the deficit area. Its too large a gap to use a sealing mastic. I can see lots of you are suffering this issue buy couldn't see how some may have found a solution. any suggestions would be gratefully received!

My Morgan it‘s nearly the same. I ask a dealer about to cure it, the answer was: it‘s difficult.

Here is a posting from a swedish member who converted his Mog from the full screen to Brooklands. He found a lot of silicone under the seal.

My idea is (the Mog is not so old) if I‘m more fearless undo the screws, lift the screen a little bit and fill the gap with something like this:
https://kunden.stahlgruber.de/Kataloge/lackiertechnik/index.php?sb=223601

Greets René

I used clear silicone sealant between the screen & bonnet.

I also take the wiper bezels off & put black silcone on both sides of the gaskets & vaseline on the inside of the bezels & the wiper shafts as they leak.

The screws holding the bonnet hinge can also leak & be sealed with a good sealant.

The seal channel of the glass to the frame I have also seen leaking on the LHS bottom corner on one CX and my 97 +4. I think the channel ends must join there. Again a little clear silcone does the trick.

My 73 4/4 leaks in the same place. It's just drips so I haven't dealt with it yet. My thought is to build up the bottom of the frame so that the seal pushes down on to the scuttle more. Might not work with a large gap.

Well Thanks all, It's nice to have had your responses! When my wife let me free after some gardening duties earlier today I went into the garage with a more, look here mate attitude! I was, after all an automotive engineer in R+D for part of my career and I know I'm probably too precious with the Mog, party because of the price of the damned things, But having been a Defender man for most of my life I'm finding the LR to be precision made compared to the Mog! The seal ends were clearly out of sorts so I had a more robust look and found that the shape of the screen bottom as opposed to the scuttle means that the screen starts to move further away from the scuttle for the last couple of inches each end. Now this results in there being a loss of pressure from the scuttle to the screen seal which in effect holds the seal in place in the channel at the base of the screen. Now here's the problem! The sealing lip of the rubber which forms the seal to the scuttle to the front is pushing upwards resulting in the seal wanting to rotate and its this rotational pressure that rolls the seal out of the screen channel making it appear that the seal is rolling under the screen! Oh! and creating a BIG hole at the end allowing you to collect bath or drinking water inside the Car!
So what to do! Well, I think it just might be age to the seal that is causing this issue, either way it looks like a screen out job and going to that amount of work I think I'll fit a new seal, I'm also going to secure the seal at the outer edges in the screen channel with a suitable silicone adhesive to help prevent this.
A few things which should be known when removing a screen:
Firstly, remove the wiper blades and cover the spindles with padding. Pipe lagging is great!
second: cover the bonnets and scuttle with some form of protection. I find the sort of rubber matting used for the rear of estate/hatchback cars ideal as it prevents sliding of the screen on the bonnet.
third: The screen is held in with 4 countersunk cap screws (Allen head) on each side of the pillar.. PLEASE NOTE the lower screws each side are slightly longer. make sure they go back in the correct order.
Fourth: Don't worry the screen won't fall out when all screws are removed! Next it's a two man job, or man and a girl if you're lucky enough! The screen is removed in a forward direction, ie. towards the front of the car. you will have to work it out of its pillar channels by finding which side releases the easiest by using your thumb on the inside , fingers around the pillar and using a rolling action whilst pushing with the thumb! WARNING ! when it releases from both sides don't yank it away if it's a post 1979 car with a heated screen as right in the middle of the bottom of the screen are the wires for the heating element! Black and Blue if memory serves me well!
Fifth: carefully roll the screen forward onto the padded bonnet and use something like polystyrene or closed cell foam to pack each gap at the bonnet edges to stabilize it.
sixth: Now it depends on what you are wanting to do! I'll be refitting a new seal and reassembling in the reverse order. If however you are replacing your screen and the current item is scrap then you can just cut the wires and remove the old screen. The connectors can be found behind the dash which you will need to lower down and lean forward to gain access. The black wire, I believe the ground and is joined to a black wire behind the dash with a bullet connector but the blue isn't, sorry can't remember what it was joined to but it's something like green/purple however, don't quote me on that! Here's a cheat for you to save removing the dash to access the connectors. Cut the wires close to the old screen and solder them to the wires of the new screen and use heat shrink tubing to insulate the join. don't forget to slip it onto the wire before soldering though!
seventh: So, whatever task required you to remove the screen you are now ready to refit it. Carefully feed the wires through the scuttle top from the heated screen and as you finally start to roll the screen into the upright position, bottom first! just apply a small amount of low modulus silicone to the hole the wires go through on the scuttle as this is a notorious leak point for water to enter behind the dash. If water can get in behind the seal anywhere the force created by the wind when driving will make sure it finds that hole!
Seventh: Apply some silicone lubricant. preferably the type that resembles Vaseline to the seals on the windscreen pillars and to the bottom of the windscreen seal, scuttle side. you will find the screen goes in easier than it came out ,as before it was stuck to the pillar seals however the addition of silicone to the seals on replacement will also aid the seals ability to prevent water ingress. do take care though as you refit it to the pillars and use gentle but firm pressure working it up from the bottom to the top, again with a rolling hand action easing the pillar outwards, you should not use tools for this procedure but some times a lubricated credit card can act as a good guide to prevent catching the seals.
Eighth: well that's it really! don't forget the longer lower screws and a minute amount of thread locker on the screws is a good idea. Gasket red Hermetite also works! and don't over tighten them! remember you're screwing into a frame holding glass and the edge of the glass is its most vulnerable area! just to be safe I stick them through holes in a card and label them as to their location when removing, we are dealing with a hand made car and they might just have been sized to prevent interference with the glass!

When my new seal arrives and I get time to actually complete the job i'll give an updated report and highlight any issues that I might find!

Thanks for detailed explanation of screen removal sewin. FWIW the heated screen cables are green/orange and black (chassis) on the loom side. Each uses a bullet connector to screen.

Some time ago I removed each screen pillar screw in turn and applied copperslip as I'd heard they can otherwise seize over time.

Hi Richard,
That's interesting, can rattle loose until it corrodes in place forever! think I'll use anti-seize in future as it'll prevent the corrosion and will probably hold it in place even if it loosens. you can always keep an eye on their tightness but its hell when things seize!

I use Gorilla waterproof sealer tape - the sort used for repairing gutters etc. It may not look too pretty but oit did the job on mine where there was a large gap in the centre of the windscreen. Be careful when positioning because once it`s on - its on and so&so to get off again.

I think both my 2023 PlusFour and 1990 4/4 are positive exceptions, no leaks at that point (the 4/4 however on many other places). The Plus Four seems (almost) completely dry......!😇

Here's an up date so far. The seal arrived from William's a couple of days ago so I got back on with the job. First thing, the blue and black heated screen wires were just not going to pull through from behind the dash! I know there's a fair length there but they were solid! So I dropped the dash down. just in case you don't know there's a lower plastic trim to the dash and its held in with two self tapping flanged screws each side, outer edges underneath! remove these first. lift the adjustable steering column as high as it will go, this then locks the dash in place.. Remove the off side dash retaining wood screw first then the center screw. Now support the dash and remove the left hand screw. Sitting in the drivers seat you will find the dash is still in place. Open the nearside door. With your left hand push the dash upwards and with your right hand release the steering column lock. Now lower the dash down to rest on the top of the steering shroud moving it slightly to the left and then resting it on top of the slightly open left hand door and steering shroud. You will now see the two bullet connectors for the screen right in the center.
Now remove the center tonneau dot fastener on the dash' 7mm socket. using your fingers ease the dash bumper and leather trim in this area, top of the scuttle so the screen wires can be pulled through. The dash bumper rubber is ridiculously held in with three expanding pin plastic fasteners to the scuttle and unless you puncture the leather to push the pins through you will only damage something however this access will allow you to remove the wires and more importantly refit them!
Now you can take the screen away to a more suitable location to work on it! Believe me don't think you'll do it with the screen resting on the bonnet of the car!...... carpet and space are required!
Interestingly I was now able to get the first clear look at my problem seal and could see where previous owners had attempted to refit the ends of the seal both sides near the pillars. Ummm! least said the better here but my car was a very clean and unmolested example so can only assume that these attempts were done by some self confessed expert!
Now to the seal! You'll be pleased to know that the old seal which apart from the two distal ends was still alright, no hardening or splitting and It pulled off as easily as cellotape coming of a roll! ALAS! fitting the new seal was not quite as easy, and when fitted it too pulls out just as easily as the old one did (I know I tested it) I'd rater hoped it would be the other way around!
Firstly you have to find the centre of the new seal and mark it ,then you have to punch the holes for the screen wires to go through, Study the old seal and use as a template. I used a leather punch tool on the largest setting, cheap as chips on ebay!
Unfortunately you have to start fitting the seal at it's centre point with a heated screen because of locating the wiring, more on that soon! Right! inserting the new seal! Make sure you have it the correct way around! start on the outside edge of the wires. you need to push the scuttle side into the channel of the screen frame as best you can, you'll feel it sort of partially locate and then you need to push the other site into the channel. You need a tool here and its a bl....y pig of a job. Trust me it will feel as if it's impossible at first. I tried all manor of trim tools and they might as well be made of cheese. Eventually searching my workshop I came across my American pattern putty knife. it's about 11/4" wide blade and resembles a scraper but it's blade is about 3/16! thick and is radiused on one side of the end only, it is also not sharp. It turned out to be the perfect tool but you still need Arnold Schwarzenegger on hand to allow rest breaks! It is certainly the hardest trim I have ever fitted to anything in almost 50 years!
When I came to the end I fitted the last two inches each side using Amazing goop as I really don't want those ends failing again!
Now back to the fitting order, for information you understand! After inserting the first side then come back to the centre and fit the seal through the wiring, caution! take great care you don't damage the wires. My black wire had an insulation cut in it from I assume the original fitting, fortunately its the ground wire! not the live feed! then proceed to fit the other side. Now depending on whether you are right handed or the other you will have fitted the seal so far on the naturalistic side for you, you will now find that it's the wrong way around for you as you tackle the other side. It takes so much effort that I found it impossible to do, so I loose taped the seal to the screen in several places and started at the outside edge which worked fine.
It's now sitting upstairs in a spare room waiting for the Goop to fully dry and then I'll get on and fit it back to the car, Incidentally, both my screen pillars were loose when I removed the screen so that would have been a dash down job anyway!
One final thing, before you re secure the dash take a good look around for evidence of leaks and inspect the screen washer tubing. If it's a clear tubing you are probably alright as it will have been upgraded but if you have the dreaded black stuff take this opportunity to change it! It will leak, trust me!
I will post a final report when I have refitted all back! Hopefully it will be short and go well but...... it is a Morgan!