Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) 4/4 vs Plus 4

Mark, you need to try a Plus 8, or maybe a Roadster.... Don't bother with a Plus 4....

When I bought my Plus4 (GDi) in 2015 I really fancied a 4/4 - those skinny wheels and lighter weight looked like fun. Then I had a test drive in one and the issue you mention became apparent. I didn't want to have to modify a new car (I was buying new because I could afford it and was busy) so I went with the Plus4 which has a nice amount of power and torque for the (my) real world and returns 40+mpg on a long drive with reasonable running costs and tax. And which has a sublime gearbox which really is a joy to use. Still got the Plus4 and see no reason to change.

Agree with Fox Terrier. Same comments apply to my Plus 4 Duratec (2012). Had the car from new and see no reason to change it. In the past I’ve been tempted by the extra power of the Roadster, especially the 3.7l version, but the potential extra cost of running such a Morgan made me stay with the Plus 4. However, if I was starting again and money was not a problem, I’d probably go for a Roadster.
Bob.

I have a 2011 4/4, which has had the suspension sorted. The engine left as standard apart from a mild re-map.
To be honest it lacks torque & you have to “ring its neck” to get the power out of it. The race track shows this, in that I can easily keep up with other cars in the corners, but as soon as on the straights all the other Morgan’s easily pull past. Whilst I love the 4/4 for its agility if I was buying another I would be looking at a roadster.

Thanks all, comments re Roadsters and GDI cars all noted, but I cannot afford one! More accurately, I can't justify one when my real passions are pre-war cars. I think the consensus so far is try a Plus 8, or buy something else (provided the 4/4 sells). It is shame, because it is such a pretty car. It will be due service and MoT in December, so I will be taking it to my nearest specialist which is New Elms, and may ask them if they have a car or 2 I can try.

First world problems I guess!

Several points for you to consider really:-

1 The Rover engined +4s are more difficult to upgrade and source parts than the later Duratec engined +4s , however you would certainly need a larger budget for these. Duratecs give a nice blend between the larger engined Roadsters and trad +8s , and the smaller more nimble 4/4s

2 Don't write off the 4/4 just yet. Have you tried a Sigma engined car , the engine is a peach, it loves to rev and is very "chuckable" , perhaps not the optimal choice for touring , but great fun and you will enjoy every mile.

3 Also don't believe everything you read about the +8. Yes it is much less frugal than your 4/4 ,(25 to 28 mpg for FI models , much less for carb equipped) but if you only cover the "normal 3000 to 5000 miles annually is that such a big factor?
The torque is amazing, and it will pull all the way from 1,500 rpm right up to 5000 where it starts to run out of breath (at which point you are travelling rather rapidly!) with a glorious soundtrack which can be addictive.
Most parts for the Rover engine are readily available , and you can gain some pretty cheap horsepower/torque with upgrades to exhaust manifolds , air intake system, fuel chip (on FI cars) or carb needles on carb equipped
They do feel "big" (especially compared to a 4/4) and the LSD equipped axle can take some familiarisation , but probably no problem to someone well versed in pre-war cars

4 Do you travel into any low emission zones regularly? Most 4/4s and +4 post 1995 (?) will be compliant , but the +8 does not become so until after 2002 when the GEMS engine management was introduced , and these cars are more pricey of course.

5 Do you live in an area infested by speed bumps , if so the early Roadster has VERY low ground clearance , and although the sump modification certainly helps , the clearance of the trad +8 is better.

Tim Ayres at New Elms has raced a +8 for some seasons and knows his way around them , he would be a good person to talk with about the +ves and -ves .

Some observations:

Actually. The clearance is the same or worse. However, the sumps Morgan used do not shatter as they are made of steel. (They did not use the later LR allow sumps). Steel sumps merely dent. One takes them off and bangs them out with a 2x2 length of wood. I keep two, so I can swap them without losing mogging time, The best Plus 8 sumps are those used on the Hotwires. They are stronger, less complicated, offer more ground clearance and carry an extra litre of motor oil (the best oil for +8s is a natural oil and a bottle of ZDDP if you like cocktails) much cheaper and the only secret to Plus 8 engine longevity.). Oil changes should be done every 3000 miles or yearly whichever comes first. The less expensive oil m itgates the cost. Please do not use synthetic. No help whatsoever in the circumstances.


Yes! I believe I have seen his web foot prints on the gomog site from time to time. I also have some UK racing people I advise who use Techniques. Brian is very savvy.

Please note that racing people develop racing cars. The needs and setup for road going cars is very different.

L.

P.S. The mighty American aftermarket made an inexpensive (45$) steel sump for the Roadster engine, albeit after some minor modification. Sadly, it was not published much in the Morgan community and the ones I saw were priced at a huge price after the modification.
P.P.S. Excellent thread

With the modified sump my s1 roadster grounded on the chassis gearbox cross member as they all do.

Having previously owned a 4/4, a Roadster and currently a Plus 4, my personal impressions are:

2012 Sigma 4/4 Sport: Needed the nuts reving off it to make any meaningful progress, Very bumpy ride. Wallowed alarmingly in corners when pushed hard. Had 9 stud hood that leaked in the rain.115 bhp and 35 to 40 mpg.

2014 Cyclone 3.7 Roadster: Impossible to change from 1st to 2nd gear above 3000 rpm. Consequently, 1st gear seldom used. Surprisingly minimal torque at low revs. Violent rear axle twitch when attempting rapid upward gear changes above 3000 rpm. Comfortable ride and pleasant to drive if burbled along at low revs. Easy up hood never leaked. 280 bhp and 28 - 30 mpg. Expensive to road tax.

2015 GDI Plus 4: Very slick gearchange. Smooth and progressive power delivery. Predictable handling. More beef from the engine would be good. Easy up hood as above. 150 bhp and 37 - 42 mpg. Average road tax.

Fully accept that not every car will behave as mine have or do. The only sure way to evaluate a particular car is to test drive it under various conditions.

You pays your money and you takes your choice,

Does the 3.7 have better ground clearance than the S1 John?