Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Has the bubble burst?

Interesting comment re the Aero investment causing the trad price rises. I had not seen that before but it does make sense.

So the Aero did represent the first move that could be seen as Premium pricing relative to the Trad. As a matter of interest what was the cost of a +4 at that stage? When I think of a Trad I more often think in +4 terms than +8. Excuse me for not having a more complete Trad knowledge.

The Llama is more for the expression than the animal.
Some of my previous ones.





Every day is a surprise to me so I like the expression in the photos.

The Plus 8s had always been seen 'til then as the MMC premium priced car with premium components and finishing.


At that point in time, 2000 to 2004, there was no Plus 4 model. Its engine's production had ended. In anticipation of this, in the late 1990s, PM had directed the MMC development shed under Bill Beck, to work on a 6 cylinder Morgan using a US Ford (Lincoln) V6 3000. Nothing strange, they had developed the first Plus 8 using a Buick V8 (215) engine 30 years before the same way. But Bill decided to put it on a 4/4 chassis, (no reason not to) which was much lighter (almost 25%) than the chassis used on Plus 4 and Plus 8 chassis. I drove it. A rocket! Devastatingly quick and agile. Beck was very proud of it, totally justified. People have forgotten that the 4/4 used to be a VERY different car from the other two trad models. Yes it was less puissant but it was LIGHT. BTW, Bill Beck had been Service Manager (training the very good Mark Baldwin) and then took over from Maurice Owen as development chief when Maurice retired in 1991ish. It was Chris Lawrence who designed the Aero. The BMW V8 was originally being fit into a trad chassis. Bill quit after an argument with Charles Morgan in 2002 later. By then, an exodus of many employees was happening, so his departure was not so remarkable. I met him when he was sent over to Quebec by the MMC on contract in early 2003 to help me finish up my cdn Morgan, a special project that had been graciously undertaken by the MMC in Malvern and that I still have to this day in garage in Canada. Bill was only at our home for a short time but I certainly learned a lot! You see on the car's arrival in Canada, it was realized I needed someone intimately familiar with all Plus 8s from 1984 to 2002. There were only two people with that level of expertise, Mark and Bill. Both joined in, Mark remotely and Bill at our home.

Sadder still, when the Roadster drive train was outsourced by the MMC in 2003/4, the outsourcers were told by Management to use a Plus 8 chassis...leaving 200 kilos on the cars (25% of the total) Made dubious sense as the Plus 8s ended in 2004. However I see decisions in the world every day that are beyond my dubious intellect!!! And the MMC simultaneously put the 4/4s on the same heavier chassis without changing bhp. However all trads became muchly alike and I gues that was a cost saving along with the same weight and handling, as you suggest. Only difference became bhp. I believe PMs plan was to have a 4 cylinder, a 6 cylinder and an 8 cylinder instead of what happened from 2000 to 2004, one four and two 8s. But as I wrote, the decision making at the MMC was changing.

Love it!!

L.

Thank you for this exceptionally interesting thread that is well worth reading. Not only regarding the value development of vintage cars and Morgan cars but also very impressive to learn the background of the history of MMC. A really great level that Alistair, Lorne and all the other participants reach here.
With all the stories it became even more clear to me in which emotional field of tension the founder and chief of a family-run relatively very small company is in order to be able to exist in the shark fight of the very big competitors.
On the one hand, there is consistency, tradition, a healthy conservatism in the model line over 110 years, in the way the company is managed, and in the financial investments and security. This pole could provide a secure feeling and consistency if it were there alone. But on the other hand the evolution of the market, environment, culture, "fashions", new generations and technical regulations. To fight against this in order to continue the tradition of a Morgan is a very demanding task.
If we're talking in the order of 10, maybe 20 million, that seems like a lot of money at first glance. But in this business, 20 million can be burned quickly if you get one step wrong out of many. Since MMC was founded, it has taken both great technical competence and a good hand for all financial matters. If only one of these two requirements is not really there anymore and the "spirit" of an inventor and founder as well as his successor is no longer transported, then after 2.5 generations it was probably the best decision to sell. I wish all employees and the car world a successful further existence of MMC even in difficult times.

Some (if not all) of the 1.8 4/4’s had holes punched in the chassis rails for the exhaust. This created a weak spot where at least one has cracked. I wonder if that led to the heavier chassis being used when the Sigma engine was installed?

In old fashioned product development lifecycle speak in essence the trad was 'the cash cow' and the Aero 'the rising star'.

Been a great exchange thanks everyone.

This just popped up on Morgan FB group I follow .... that seems criminally cheap (to the point where I'd have bid if I thought it would be anywhere near that although I hardly need another addition to the fleet!)



It would appear to be a Mathewson's auction.

Not checked the auction site so the poster may have got the wrong end of the stick ... anyone follow the auctions??

K

Lot 426. The price is correct.

Here: https://www.mathewsons.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-426---1952-morgan-plus-4-flat-rad/?lot=18888

"1952 MORGAN PLUS 4 FLAT RAD
Sold for £14,600
Note that some lots may be sold provisionally"

I'd have had that at that price!! 😯

K

There's been some hugely in-depth and knowledgeable posts written in response to the original question, but the answer is still yes.....!

I always thought that the price of CX cars was an aggressive move by the Italians. To make you entry level offering similar price to your previous top of the range model is not only ambitious but it's guaranteed to lose you a large number of legacy owners...🤷🏻‍♂️

I felt that MMC had been positioning themselves as more of a 'premium' brand and considering themselves to be 'real' car builders, for quite a few years before CX. The product never really lived up to the hype or ambition though.

The CX buyer that MMC are aiming at isn't the sort of person who'll be happy fettling and developing their £90k toy.

Whether or not the 'trad' could have been saved will be debated for years to come I'd imagine. My thought is that it could have been saved if there was a will.
I think that perhaps we'll say 'it could have been the savior of MMC' in a few years.......


The Rolex point is interesting.
Interest rates were low in the last decade and money was easy to come by. Demand was high and supply was low. If Rolex had released more watches in this period the profiteering wouldn't have happened as it did.
The watches became a sure fire way to make a quick profit. Rolex fueled the situation by forcing customers to increase their spend by buying several pieces they didn't want before being able to get the watch they actually wanted. All these extra watches went on the 'grey market' and helped to fuel the prices.
It's interesting to see to see both 'grey' prices and stock levels now. There's loads of watches and prices are tumbling. Using the steel Daytona as a example, in the peak a they were going for £40k, the same watches are now hovering just over the £20k mark, they'll be £19,995 soon.
Ironically, having caused the problem, Rolex are now cashing in on the used market by selling 'approved pre owned' watches at Rolex dealers....🤯

No one needs a Rolex, no one needs a Morgan. They are both 'want's', discretionary or aspirational purchases. They're the first things to go when times are hard and people need to free up some money.

Rolex had been making watches for 5 years before HFS Morgan made his first car, both companies have had their ups and downs over the last century, I know which one my money is on to make it through the next century......