Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Plus Four, Supersport & Plus Six (CX & CXV Generation Vehicles) Morgan Radiator issues — Again!!!!!!!!!!

... which is *exactly* why you'd think Morgan would do it ;-)

Will

Nothing would surprise me at the factory to be honest, remember when Charles bought a couple of hundered V8 engines from Bmw without telling anyone. They were stocked at the factory some were over three years old before being fitted to the Aero and plus8 range. I find it hard to believe that some of the rads were not repaired or re furbished especially as some have had 5 rads fitted. Em

It would be interesting to see how many cars have suffered single and multiple radiator failures.
I have been keeping check on the coolant level and topped up about 3/4 of a litre since the swirl pot installation (7000miles). I have no signs of leakage. I will discuss when the car is in for service at the factory in February.
Is it possible to carry out an inspection of the radiator’s problem area without wings off? Maybe a boreascope? Anyhow will ask is a pressure test can be carried out. (Thanks Em)

It’s a combination of projected production numbers that then influences purchase of components. This is a combination of JIT versus stock holding costs. Holding expensive stock incurs costs so a balance is made of that cost versus costs incurred due to running out of components. That involves statistical implications coupled to costs of losses. Delays in production, downtime, of production lines. Policy decisions are made to give targets for stock holding to get the best compromise between maintaining these by holding excess stocks. Aftermarket stock holding will be a part of that business model. Who holds that stock can be included. Supplier or factory? Will the factory allow the supplier access to aftermarket sales? Under what terms? Will the factory hold on to aftermarket sales to gain profits? Will they allow a percentage of sales from the supplier? Will they allow the supplier freedom but negotiate cost reductions to do so?
A lot of business decisions to be made.
Oops! Customer satisfaction to be added in too.

Hi Mike, to access ( look ) at the lower section of radiator the car needs to be elevated and the front lower under tray/panels needs to be removed. From memory the tray/s are retained by 10mm bolts.

Our plus Six is on its 3rd radiator. The 1st suddenly lost coolant and a drip could be seen underneath. The second radiator started to need very small amounts of top ups right from it being fitted over a two to three month period on the near side header tank, it was reported to the dealer, but nothing found, they checked twice over several months. Then when on the way back from France this year it suddenly lost 2/3rds of the nearside coolant header tanks level. It was just starting to drip again, but not hugely. In both cases when it did start to drip it was on the nearside. I was told by the dealer this is the most common area to see the radiator leak?.. After our 3rd radiator replacement and right from fitting, the nearside coolant header tank seems to need very very small top ups over several weeks, the 3rd radiator has only had 500 miles on it so far, so its maybe possible that some small amounts of air are working their way out. The amount needed to top up is very small, much less than seen when the previous radiator leaked. When the 3rd radiator was fitted we also had the ECU flash.

The car has only covered 3700 miles from build, so needing three radiators in that milage is something.

As Em says a coolant pressure test should reveal if the system is losing pressure ( leak).

Also of interest.. BMW's USA own info on the engine, states the cooling system has to be initially filled using vacuum filling equipment to avoid air pockets. The fluid is drawn into and through the engines cooling system until filled, after that its just topped up via the header tank as per normal ops.. I wonder if the main dealers do it that way.
Dave

Thanks Dave, be interesting to get thoughts from the factory.

Modern cooling systems are complex.

The Boxster/Cayman cooling system has 6 vacuum operated valves, controlled by the engine ECU.
To fill the system the car has to be connected to a Porsche external computer and coolant added as instructed, with waits at certain points. The engine is then started and as heat grows the computer will instruct the technician when to add further coolant. The process takes about an hour.

I suspect that the BMW engines in the CX cars are no less complex/demanding.

DIY friendly they are not.

Very interesting explanation from Peter.

Earlier this year, I met someone at the pub we stay at near Goodwood. He was running a beautiful Cayman GT4 and started to explain this to me, as I was checking levels on 4/4.
I struggled to understand.


Bud
4/4 - Stanley

Bud,

this is the cooling system on the Boxster/Cayman. You see the high temperature and low temperature systems are interconnected whilst the BMW engines used by Morgan has 2 separate systems with separate header tanks, as far as I know.

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The lubrication system is just as complex.

If you (or anyone) would like the full technician training book pm me. It is avout 120 pages of pdf.

Two thoughts enter my head, its a confusing place on a good day.

We need to be responsible for pollution and damage our planet less, whilst maintaining personal freedom of movement.

This level of state legislation driving more and more complex solutions (Euro7 etc), resulting in more complexity, cost to build, test, maintain etc - less chance of recycling, more chance of block replacement and waste. More cost to the consumer for purchase and whole life cost for service and spares.

You wonder if we have fallen off the path to enlightenment. Is making things better actually making them worse. A bit of Colin Chapman would go a long way?

It does seem to be a benefit of an electric powertrain that the complexity is significantly reduced.