Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 How many pre 2014 without chassis cracks?

I would say that there is more information about M3W chassis cracks (and other problems) on this forum that anywhere else, you just have to look. All freely shared for the benefit of all owners.

The "Buyers Guide", also freely available on this forum in the owners resource section, shows the areas to check.

For info it was Hugos car (above) that I checked for chassis cracks with none found and then cracked as shown only a (relatively) few miles later. Check your chassis for cracking frequently, it can get bad quickly. That said, you can go for many miles with no issues, as with Chris99 and my own original 2013 chassis that did many miles without a problem. It's a bit of a lottery when it will happen.

I can give you about another 8 chassis replacement pre 2014 M3W's out of our small Talk Morgan community, without too much research, plus a few more early cars that have been offered for sale with post 2014 chassis fitted. The TM and MTWC "known" M3W's probably number less than 200, so out of the approximately 2500 M3W's that were produced, we only "know" of under 10% at best and many of them will be post 2014 spec chassis cars. The reality is that the figures don't look quite so rosey if you look at the "known" pre 2014 cars and how many of them we know have had replacement chassis.

I assume that the other 90% of owners, that we don't know about, either have no issues with their M3W's and it's only us on TM that have problems (unlikely), they don't actually drive their M3W's and just look at them (more likely), or have just pushed them to the back of the garage (I have met a few who have done this). If you don't drive them, they will certainly not have any problems, just sitting there looking pretty. The chassis will never crack. Some of these "perfect" low mileage early cars appear for sale occasionally and can be a bargain if the potential cost is factored in.

I cannot say how many cars had replacement chassis fitted by Morgan but I can say that they perfected the replacement down to 2 men in under two days. Plenty of practise to get that proficient I would say.

Ignorance can be bliss but you have made the effort to find out about this before buying, to your credit. It is a lottery and you may get many years of trouble free use from your 2012 M3W, as many have. I would just use it and enjoy it but be aware of where they can crack and check it frequently, for your own safety. If it does crack then it can be repaired, maybe not easily or cheaply but it can be done.

I would add that being aware that the S&S is a torque monster and treat it accordingly. At start up it goes from zero to 100 foot pounds and that wacks the front frame in a big way. There is no way around it. I totally agree with planenut that if it doesn't get driven it won't break. Mine finally went when three cracks at the front developed. It started with one but it then cascaded like dominoes. At start up that engine is trying to leave the building. I'm more than convinced that the start cycle is the culprit as just running the engine at normal revs smooths the vibrations down to something reasonable. Driving the car, even with potholes will not introduce the forces necessary to crack the chassis compared to the start cycle.

I took mine on the NurburgRing , so yeah it cracked
(not at the Ring, a year later)

Our early (April) 2012 one cracked at ~7000 miles along with a number of the other ones that were found when cracking first became identified as an issue - this was a good opportunity to have the original cush drive replaced by a Centa with the factory doing the labour of getting the engine out .... the brake pedal recall/fix (for the missing weld) for ours came quite a while later.

My thinking is that the original chassis design is inevitably going to have cracks initiating (inherently because of the design) but the time before they bcome visible (propogation) depends on the quality of welding of a particular chassis and/or the usage....no idea if the bolt in brace is a good solution but the number that cracked even with this brace suggests that cracking had initiated (micro-crack) before the brace was fitted and the brace does not stop crack propogation.

My TW in May 2013 broke after more than 14 months, repaired the same month and went to the factory for replacement in May 2015 before the end of the warranty, the new chassis started to crack after 2 and a half years in two places then two more and two more in total 6 different places, so I think that the kilometers plus the state of the roads define the duration of the chassis, which avoids breaking quickly are hydraulically adjustable front shock absorbers and driving on roads that are smooth as a billiard table and do not exceed second gear by exaggerating.

Nearly all the pre 2014 chassis cars crack at the bottom of the front upright. Had odd later chassis crack at this point.

We have had 2 cars crack at the critical upper rear wishbone mount area - the trouble is that the cracks in this area are so hard to see - they are just small lines like a mini snail trail and both times its been easier to notice as engines had been removed.
We upgrade the whole front end chassis structure and fit the upgraded engine mounts to address the problem. Far more cost effective solution than the MMC new chassis.

The gusset strengthening bracket to the upper chassis section is a major improvement but the chassis will still eventually crack. Don't forget a fair few of the earlier cars were upgraded by dealer/MMC with rectifier mount/gusset plates and welded in A frame at same time as Centa upgrade so although you may think you have a later 'upgraded' chassis fitted, you actually may not

Its quite hard to tell the difference between early and late chassis easily.

"I cannot say how many cars had replacement chassis fitted by Morgan but I can say that they perfected the replacement down to 2 men in under two days. Plenty of practise to get that proficient I would say."
You would have better access to the information than me but as MMC allow 4 hours to take an engine out alone, I'd be surprised that they got down to 32 man hours for a complete chassis change which involves body off and remove every component attached to chassis - I could understand 32 man hours maybe for upgrading the existing chassis (which involves body off still ideally) to one with welded in A frame and gusset plates etc. etc.

Oh and regarding the chassis itself - I can park 4 cars next to each other and if you measured mounting points for various suspension items your find that nearly all are different - later cars >2018 etc are far more consistent, perhaps the chassis manufacturer finally invested in a new jig...

Do Harley Davidson frames crack, and if not, why?
Just a thought from a non 3 wheeler owner.

If it's the same amount of torque fixed in to a tubular frame (chassis) is it down to poor design or poor construction, or both....?

I just wondered.🤷🏻‍♂️

My thoughts are that the engine in a motorcycle is usually fixed to the frame forming part of the structure as it were, in the Morgan it is on engine mounts.
The front engine mounts are in a cantilever position on the frame with constant pulses and vibration from the engine (the front mounts are further away from the joint than the rear also), with the lower weld joint on the upright taking the punishment, which I believe may be causing the cracks here no matter what year the chassis, it really needs some triangulation or extra support at this joint.
Just my thoughts but it doesn't seem right that half the engine etc. weight is taken up by unsupported tubing with no webbing.

An unfair comparison Julian. HD engines are not only smaller generally, they have a degree of balancing. The 2 litre X wedge engine doesn't, it's just a raw torque. Just watch a Harley turn up at a meet and observe engine at idle. It's so smooth and soft by comparison.