Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Leaf spring lubrication

Please note again that the dampers/shocks being made for David Rutherford and now Tim Aylers of New Elms and their distributors from either the pre-bankruptcy AVO and now the new manufacturers (same people)were always bespoke.[for these fellas] Though AVO sold other shocks directly and to other people indicating they were for Morgans, they were not (shiver) ANYTHING like what they supplied to Rutherford/Aylers. Other "Morgan" Such AVOs were not recommended. This new supplier to Tim is continuing that agreement and supplying RUTHERFORD designed shocks. They cannot be judged by other fare the company might make or sell. [/b]

I find what is important in a shock (better called a damper or dampener) is

1. Its overall size, extension and compression.
2. Its dampening rate, (Rutherford matched to the lowest KONI setting, that was recommended and enjoyed by trad Morgans for years.
3. Whether they have a tweaking feature one can use to refine them on installation but don't fool yourself to believe that it is much good after a short time. I see gentlemen racers change their setting on the weekend thinking that firmer setting is faster. But the truth is bouncing in the air down a circuit with a stiff suspension is not as effective as keeping your tyres on the ground with a compliant one. (wryly)
4. Whether the dampers have an internally bump stop.
5. Whether they come (at the rear) in the 2-3 types of trad variants MMC used shocks on.

Morgan COMFORT & HANDLING are dictated by the dampening rate and the amount of travel. The lesser the travel, the less both will be. (duh!) However, as leaf springs sag, their dampening rates doesn't change, but the arc they hold the car up with collapses (sags). This places the car closer to bottoming out. Creating adjustable bump stops makes that the loss of effective travel even worse as they must stop the car at a point before the bottoming..ergo even less of the little precious travel than they had when they addressed the problem of bottoming out.

On new trads, I found maximum travel to be 1.25" and 6.125 at the rear. 1" and 5.5" respectively is acceptable. After that, the springs, front or rear, must be changed, much more often at the rear unless the front is suffering from insufficient maintenance. Old Morgan springs used to last 10-15 years. My newer ones (2002) are still good on a very pampered Morgan. However, I went through 3 MMC sets in 2 years on another Plus 8 I kept in the UK ..one set lasted 2 months! MMC rear leaf springs have been very spotty since and stiffening your leaf springs in hope of having them last longer is a painful result. When the time comes for my remaining car, I will not buy from he MMC or the Morgan aftermarket. There are plenty of leaf spring makers on every highway in NA. They will take mine, test them for dampening rate, and then make the same in the best quality steel, which has been the cause of MMC's now perennial problem with their leaf springs.

Once again, the major elements are travel, spring rates and dampening rates. AFAIK, aside from David Rutherford, no one ever addressed these things specifically for Morgan trads until last year when Beady did.

gmg

Protech delivered my new dampers today, they are beautifully made to order. Unfortunately I simply gave them the extended and compressed lengths of my old Koni's (338 & 230mm). They have manufactured to the extended length and don't have as much travel as the Koni's (338 & 265mm). The distance between mounting points on my car with the axle down on the stops is about 289 so these dampers are too long and won't have enough travel. I'm going to talk to Protech to see what they can do. I had no idea it would get so complicated!
If I get them re-made shorter will 73mm travel be enough? I can't see under the shrouds but it feels like there are bump stops fitted.
Apparently Protech have been talking to various Morgan aftermarket suppliers. I'll let you know how I get on.
PS: I've just seen Rutherford/Protech Lightweight Aluminium Adjustable Rear Shocks listed on the New Elms price list.

Rog: I think you are right Roger, an unlucky clout from a bouncing rock? I took the car up some very rocky roads in Corfu a while back, I've got a gouge in the timber panel under the fuel tank that just missed the fuel tank drain boss and hit something hard enough to bend the transverse member of the Panhard rod. Not the tubular with the rose joints on the end but the square member that goes across the chassis rails and fixes one end of the rod!

Wow I’m impressed tackling those tracks in Corfu!

A 73mm stroke does sounds a bit on the light side, but I'm no expert..... I’m not trying to push them, but I do have a pair of Tim Ayre’s extended Rutherford surplus to requirements if you get stuck, here. Length wise they may work?

Good luck

CJB If you fitted those shocks to my car. (All Morgan’s are different)
Your original Konis would give. 39mm available of compression movement.
And 79mm of extension movement from static position.
Your new Protechs the same extension of 79mm obviously But ZERO compression movement available.
Have a look at my geometry diagram in my write up. Then fill in the figures from your car.
You will need the angle from vertical of the shock when fitted. I estimated 25deg.
The static length of the shock with weight on.
The length between the shock mounts when car is free of the ground. Your shock will need to be a little longer than this measurement.
Hope I got my figures right just did them quickly. & being a Morgan are +|~ a bit. But a good indicator
Hope of help.
Ps I am assuming your set up is the same as my 2011 4/4 as Rog cad drawing shows.
& you do not have any axle/prop shaft contact issues.
Of course when you have the compressed & extended lengths of any shocks you order you can calculate your expected movement.

Thanks Roger, mental arithmetic suggests they are too long for my setup but I need to tabulate everything now to be sure. If I understand all that’s been posted here, I need dampers that fully extend to slightly more than 289, my fully drooped spring dimension, with as much travel as possible and an internal bump stop. 🤔

Thanks IcePack, I’ve printed off your drawing and will measure up before talking to Protech. It’s interesting that New Elms are listing Rutherford/Protech units. My 1990 +8 was one of the last made with lever arms and went back to the factory for a telescopic conversion. Subsequently I fitted Koni Classics and LibraMotive fitted rear discs then Allon White’s put a Panhard rod & anti-tramp bars on. The bracketry for this put an additional plate between the spring and axle so effectively lowered the car by about 5mm. I need to measure everything. it’s currently on my ramp with the chassis jacked up so there’s my datum dimension!

Great, I hope you get it sorted. Whatever with the springs working properly ie lubed you don’t want the shocks banging against their own bump stops on extension or compression.
Due the geometry of my car with the Mogsport AVOs I only have 28mm of compression available. Generally that is fine but on “donga ” type bumps I can hear the nearside shock hit its compression stop. Rogers bump stops are helping with that.

Just been talking to Wolf Performance. Wolf They have been working with pro tech. Cain has Redesigned the front top mounts, and mounting hardware front and rear. They have been in testing for 2-3 months so are about to be released.
I am looking forward to taking some measurements to hopefully improve my compression travel.

Sounds exciting