Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Trad +8 Clutch Kit and Water Pump part numbers

My 1994 +8 had just done 27k mls when it developed a potential gearbox problem. The gearbox won't come out from below so it was an engine out job. Having heard of clutch failures from 27k onwards I thought it prudent to replace the clutch plate while installing the engine and gearbox. I was advised to replace the clutch plate, release bearing and clutch cover on the basis that as soon as the car is back on the road another component will almost certainly fail! The search was on for a clutch kit for a +8. All the following prices include VAT.

A well respected and authoritative web site advised that all +8's take the Borg and Beck clutch kit HK9690. However, this seemed unavailable. Never mind, the Man from Little Hallingbury always comes up trumps. A visit to his parts website quoted a clutch kit +8, 5 speed, TSC 331 for a reasonable £876. I phoned for details but they could not give me any because it was on backorder.

At this point I contacted Borg & Beck direct and a very nice Mr Daniel Girling told me HK 9690 had been superseded by HK 6076. I picked one up locally for £120. It is identical to the original. The kit was originally for Rover SD1 and Rimmer Bros cross references as RB7335PBB at a more reasonable £237. EBAY prices are from £45.

While we are at it, when I reassembled and started up my Morgan the water pump leaked and needed replacing. Mr Hallingbury quoted for a +8 water pump and gasket, COE 211 for a reasonable £347.84 whereas Rimmer Bros SD1 water pump and gasket, GWP 2149 is a more reasonable £186.

Who is taking the p1ss?

The Rimmer one doesn't have 'Morgan' on the packet!

Perhaps that's because Morgan don't make it. My leaking water pump has a British Leyland logo cast into it and that's bolted on to a Rover block. I'm not sure paying £161.84 extra to have 'Morgan' on the packet is value for money! They are both SD1 at the end of the day.

A couple of years ago I replaced a burnt out Roadster starter motor for a pal, he tried the usual Mog parts suppliers inc the Factory and a lot of ringing round Ford dealer parts depts, quotes varied from £500 to £800 ish

I managed to source a genuine Fomoco one, & had it imported from the US by a Mustang specialist for me, inc all the duties and then vat at this end for less than £200...nuff said !

Odd. What was it? Very curious as always.


Yes. A characteristic of many cars, including our generation of Plus 8s (1977 to 2004). It is not difficult once you get used to it...just tedious, like re-doing one's front trad suspension. I have
posted three methods of removing your Plus 8 engine and I use whichever seems most convenient for the task I want to accomplish. For example, there is no need to remove the gearbox
for a clutch change, though so many, including dealers, do so.

The GoMoG LAW OF ENGINE REMOVAL: The fear removing engines (either oneself or by hired mechanics) prejudices one's Morgan as one avoids the task until it is too late,
often leading to collateral damage and often a degraded Morgan experience until it is done. I have seen owners, put their Morgan up on stands and not use it for years merely to avoid
the task or costs of engine removal. [

b]BTW what does it cost to have a Morgan engine removed these days? [/b]


Odd. I have only heard of clutch mileage that low when the clutch assembly has been improperly installed..(for example a few early UK GEMs Morgans) or from driver-related reasons. For example,
I have more than 400,000kms (250,000 miles) over three Plus 8s and I have never removed the engine for any clutch related reasons.That being said, considering the low cost of the 3 part clutch
kit,. I always replace the clutch when I have access to it. Why not? Why set up a need to replace the clutch even few 1000s miles earlier than you would have to in the normal course?


The latter part is not necessarily true but the advice to replace the entire clutch assembly rather than piece by piece is sage, for the reasons I give above.


Yes. You discovered the true story in two ways. Part #s change constantly and gomog has been around a long time. Your part # will change as well. In fact, all the alternative numbers I put up on
gomog 12 years ago, have changed! I removed them all. It seems to be the best policy for me. I can always source the right clutch in a few minutes...preferably within 20 minutes of the seeker,
anywhere in the world.


Don't be annoyed at him. Your experience merely reveals a very long tradition from that very charming guy. It is always best to find non-Morgan manufacturer supply when one needs it. We merely
add another link in the parts sourcing chain along with an attendant loss in expert advice on that part. In this case, the MMC is not longer an expert in clutches they stopped installing using two decades
ago (if they ever were). Additionally, the marque, in 2002 (the beginning of the hard times, began turning predatory, just as all specialist and marque suppliers are now. In the case of the man in Little
whatever, he has always been the most expensive place to source anything and his quality is often suspect. I have had scares. But whose fault is this? Us or his? He has a following, based on his
knowledge of Morgans from 1950 to 1980ish. Knowledge is more important than prices. That being said.....

All dealers are bound contractually for supply to the MMC. As you have found, even prices at 1/2 those you first found are still often 5 times too high. The Bible gives the best advice, when it wrote "render
onto Caesar..etc". In this case, buy Morgan parts from Morgan sources and Rover parts from Rover sources. (shrug) We also lose the expertise that comes along with proper parts sourcing. The MMC
is no longer experts in the B&B parts they installed over two decades ago, if they ever were. And B&B has a LOT of competition in the same parts in equal quality. Glad to see you saved yourself 90% of
your original quote for the same part but there ARE other clutches worth buying The world is awash with generic 9.5" clutches.

The best current Morgan ourcing knowledge is now by CURRENT word of mouth. However, beware, Morgans, when you use the parts of others, do not always follow the same parts for the subject years.
One cannot simply buy the Rover or whatever parts for your Morgan model year. For example, European Plus 8s are very different from overseas Plus 8s, especially from 1994 to 2000.

BTW it should be mentioned that there are a range of different "performant or racing" clutches available for this engine. I have tried two before removing them. They are hard on my clutch leg after a few
hours of driving. I took the discrete advice of performant engine suppliers on the QT. The regular clutch offerings are easier on the leg and fully capable of coping with big engines. I use the regular clutch
offerings for the LR/Rover V8 though my respective LR capacity became tweaked 4.6 to 4.8l.

One other watchpoint to note with these clutches. Many people are still using the original metal throw-out bearing. It was changed ages ago. The newer ones (black) are better and quieter. However, take
care to grease the hinge points of either type on installation.

Thanks again for the help. I wish there were more like you.

gmg

The water pump is a Landrover Disco 1/2 or P38 type, you can get them on fleabay for less than £50,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/11461786...r=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

or half that if you don't mind chinesium. My wp bearing is a bit noisy now, but then it was less than £30, and has done about 50k miles. Its easy to replace, unless the bolts shear. Replace bolts with stainless versions!, worth an extra £20 or so.

Do share if you find a good value clutch replacement, i'd like one on the spares shelf. My cars done 122k miles now, and I don't think there's any issue with the clutch plate, fork or thrust bearing. The input shaft bearing is noisy ( a few quid for the part, but I'm not taking the engine out just for that) but my clutch master cylinder spring did fail, which felt like the clutch had gone. Now my clutch pedal return/tension spring has sheared, so there's a bit of floppy slack at the top of the pedal, but I can still drop the clutch and wheel spin off the start line, and the torque carries the wheel spin through second and third, especially hairy if its a bit damp!

My 1994 water pump and gasket looks different to yours which I am guessing is around the early 2000s?



P5,P6 & SD1 all used the same basic water pump casting shape. The differences being the pulleys and their positions, fans & viscous couplings, the latter requiring the left hand thread version. Then there are the Land Rover and Range Rover versions. Some pumps are interchangable or can be adapted. I just wanted a direct replacement pump without any uncertainty of will it - won't it etc.

Treesurveyor, you are very lucky. This water pump is definitely not easy to remove/replace. Due to the lack of clearance with the crosshead the pulley cannot be removed while the pump is still in position and one of the long bolts from the water pump cannot be removed with the pulley still in place! Membership of the Magic Circle can be an advantage in this situation.



I think £120 for an HK 6076, or even the going rate of £250 - £300 is good value compared to £876!

Well done Calypso! I was hoping someone would step in. You did! My compliments.

HEADS UP.

Parts for Morgans, especially for Plus 8s have so many variants depending on the year and where it was shipped to. They very often do not follow either the then current Rover or Land Rover or the UK
stock Morgans of the day. Sadly, most moggers and even dealers don't realize that, and that causes a lot of parts confusion and loss.

For example, you are correct that Tree Surveyor's pump, timing cover and oiling system come from a GEMS Morgan, a relative rarity in the UK during its reign (2000 to mid-2004) Most of these went
overseas starting January 1998. After two years of being unable to import a Morgan to the US (and Downunder) (1996-1998) most after went overseas, went there. However, even then there were
differences as the overseas Plus 8s until 2000 had a MMC bespoke chip fit when ALL the post-2000s production, wherever they went. have LR Discovery 2 program from years earlier. Wiht differen
programming there are different quirks.

To make our lives MORE difficult, LR began using GEMS in 1996 and switched to Bosch Motronic in 1999 (which the MMC never used). So both your engine (Hotwire) and TreeSurveyor's (GEMS) were
technicaly obsolete when they left the Works. I use the word "dated" rather than "obsolete" as, like wine, some older vintages are better than later ones, either in the performance area or the
ease of parts-availablity. Original parts are not produced long past the lifetime of production. The best time to buy spares is when the first generation are coming off the road, usually 25 years after their
production ended. 10 years after that, the same part can cost 100 times more or force your ward off the road. You are at an excellent time to stock up now. In your case, the best time to buy your Hotwire
wiring loom (generic to LR) or the throttle pot was 10 years ago. Treesurveyor's weak point is the GEMS timing cover. Oil pumps wear, which is not a worry for you or me. However, Treesurveyor's, on the
other hand, is incorporated into his timing cover unlike every other variant (save Motronic) since Buick 215s began in 1962. (they are still producing new parts and casting for them in the USA.) The GEMS
timing cover also is made for a computer run ignition system which means no provision for our distributor, meaning he cannot retrofit available older parts in a MOT world

Here are the LR water pumps. https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/pumps.htm

I have found all pre-GEMS water pumps, Buick 215, 3.5, 3.9, 4.2, with their timing covers are exchangeable with a couple of tweaks. The big cut-off point for most LR/Rover V8 parts is 1977, the birth of the Sd1.

In a nutshell, Morgan parts sourcing is risky. Trust no one. There are ever fewer people left that know enough. Most owners of the same year still assume that their Morgan +8 is the same as all of that type
that year and, these all follow LR/Rover. Best idea is to consult your block # (I have 4 lists up on gomog, or ask someone knowledgeable quick, before they pass away. (wryly) There are tons of parts available.
You simply have to know exactly what and where to source it.

gmg

P.S. There are also striking performance and handling differences between the same Morgan model made for different places on the same day.

Update

Borg & Beck HK6076 is the correct clutch kit for a 1994 +8. The change is nice and smooth and the price is good.

The water pump is more problematic. My original pump is 14.3cm in length which gives a clearance of approximately 9mm to the crosshead. Just enough to get the fan belt on.



The pump starts life as a Rover SD1 part and uses the same gasket but because of a left hand thread on the nose for a viscous fan coupling it is too long to fit.

I tracked down a short nose version on an auction site advertised as specifically for a Morgan +8. A quick comparison with my pump looked promising.



However, this pump was 14.8cm in length, leaving only 4mm clearance, insufficient to mount the fan belt. When questioned, the seller suggested leavering the engine back on it's mounts to increase the clearance and he was surprised at my lack of enthusiasm.

It would seem that Morgan have the pump further shortened by themselves or a 3rd party so there seems to be no 'off the shelf' alternative. Clearance may vary between cars but my options were to pay the full dealer price of £347.84 Inc VAT for a new pump or have my own rebuilt. The rebuild cost me £65, two days, and I know it fits.

Is the MGBV8 pump too short?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25604181...ustomid=76ebfee7545d1fd895290db718e54a2d