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Aug 24th, 2023
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,673 Likes: 25
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2014
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is there a link to that thread.... just in case, not that anything can go wrong with a Morgan (like sumping quarts of oil) Here is a link to the FUEL TANK BRACKETS thread.
Andy
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 711 Likes: 8
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Mar 2013
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A solution is available for those who have nightmares about broken chassis tubes on the older M3W. As I mentioned previously, our car underwent a chassis upgrade at M3W Services, along with several other improvements. The results are shown in the attached pictures, which I received today. It shows how the old chassis got reinforced with stronger tubes inside the old tubes. As you can see, there is a massive difference in wall thickness compared to the old tubes. These thicker tubes are pressed inside as far as the white/silver line on one of the pictures. Both the upper and the lower tubes got these inserts. Once there, they are welded to the old chassis tubes in different places. The bolt-in A frame is also reinforced and welded into the chassis. Once all is done, you can't see any difference on the outside of the chassis. It all looks like the original, only much stronger. ![[Linked Image]](http://tm-img.com/images/2024/05/12/Steve-4.jpeg) ![[Linked Image]](http://tm-img.com/images/2024/05/12/Steve-369f55f13b5fd5743.jpeg) ![[Linked Image]](http://tm-img.com/images/2024/05/12/Steve-3.jpeg) ![[Linked Image]](http://tm-img.com/images/2024/05/12/Steve-1.jpeg) ![[Linked Image]](http://tm-img.com/images/2024/05/12/Steve-2.jpeg)
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Joined: Jan 2024
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OP
New to Talk Morgan
Joined: Jan 2024
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All great info on cracks and repairs. And of great interest.
However the info I’m trying to get is the percentage of early cars that have cracked. I spent some years dealing with weld procedures. So I know that there are many variables in the process making some more likely to fail than others in the heat affected zone. It may be that 10% were destined to fail due to the method and the welder that day or that batch.
I also note that the redesigned top brace cones loose easily rendering it useless. So maybe no need for sleepless nights. Ensure the triple brace is tight and it could be a 9:1 chance in your favour.
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Joined: May 2012
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: May 2012
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That's exactly what I did with mine, seems a perfect solution.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,139 Likes: 43
Talk Morgan Expert
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Talk Morgan Expert
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,139 Likes: 43 |
Thanks for posting the detailed photos Laurens, very interesting. It appears to be a good job and the upper tube inserts go further past the crack prone area around the upper rear wishbone mount than I had thought possible. It's much easier to see exactly what the situation is with the body off, I wasn't sure exactly where the tubes were crimped. The welded in brace should improve things greatly as well.
Nice to know that there is a viable alternative to the full, expensive MMC chassis change and at a more reasonable price as well I assume? I had wondered if a whole new forward chassis grafted on, as with Trikings, would be a better solution but that looks pretty good and should sort the problem for good.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,058 Likes: 20
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,058 Likes: 20 |
There were 1027 pre-2014 specification cars produced, according to the numbers for the one and only M3W recall, to date. That was for brake pedal weld failure but was also supposed to incorporate the chassis crack checks at the same time as the brake pedal inspection, although no mention was made of this in the recall information. There were far fewer cars fitted with the suspect brake pedal box than 1027. DVSA were of the opinion that these chassis cracks would not result in a catastrophic failure, you would get an indication something was wrong, so would not issue a recall for the chassis cracking.
As you say, a good proportion of those cars have had chassis replaced for cracks in the tubes near the upper wishbone rear mount, along with some accident replacements. I couldn't even guess at a number though. The cracks do tend to start from a weld, so the quality (on the day?) of weld may have something to do with it? The specification of the chassis tube was also changed in 2014. From personal experience of fitting an Empire suspension kit to both pre and post 2014 chassis, the later chassis was made to better tolerances than the early one, which required lots of shims to correct the geometry from side to side.
Some chassis don't crack for many miles and others crack at fairly low mileages, there is no set usage for failures. When they do crack propagation of the crack can be quick. I have checked a chassis closely for cracks and found nothing, then found the tube fractured within a thousand miles. You can be fairly sure that a pre 2014 spec chassis will crack at some point, sooner or later. The bolt in brace seems to make little difference, the welded in version that some early cars got seems better. All M3Ws, right up to the last ones made, can crack in the vertical tube at the lower wishbone front mount and can be relatively easily and cheaply fixed with a welded repair bracket.
For info, MMC have recently changed their policy with chassis cracks on early M3Ws, no longer will they replace them free of charge. A "customer contribution" in the region of £10,000 is now required, plus payment for any other work found during the chassis change. There are alternatives, repairs from M3W Services for example. Sorry for the long answer 😊. Interesting post addressing a big problem
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean, Auburn Boat Tail
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,773 Likes: 19
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,773 Likes: 19 |
There were 1027 pre-2014 specification cars produced, according to the numbers for the one and only M3W recall, to date. ... A "customer contribution" in the region of £10,000 is now required, plus payment for any other work found during the chassis change. ... Thats a big potential hit on resale values. If there is say 50% chance you might need £10K of work, then that wipes £5K off the value of your car. The M3W services fix looks like a complete rebuild so is unlikely to be inexpensive either! Although it looks pretty good!
M3W5sp 2015, MSCC, MTWC, Oxon UK
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,139 Likes: 43
Talk Morgan Expert
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Talk Morgan Expert
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,139 Likes: 43 |
The M3W services solution (I expect) is not "cheap" but it will be far more reasonable that the MMC chassis change. Assuming that a pre 2014 M3W cars value will be reduced by the possibility of an expensive MMC chassis change for many owners who would not look further, there could be a bargain for the more capable potential owner. With this repair (or similar) it, could still be a relative bargain with the assurance that it will probably last for many years with an increase in value and saleability once modified.
There seem to be quite a lot of early cars available at the moment with very low mileages. Possibly these owners have hardly used their cars for more than a short run out in the Summer and will be worried by the idea that they may require a costly MMC chassis change at some point. They could be very keen to part with their potentially troublesome M3W's for a more modest price?
I think for the more mechanically competent (potential) owner, the market could be moving towards them. For those owners who take their early M3W to the dealer for everything and just put petrol in them, maybe not so good. So I agree PaulV, a potential big hit for some owners but maybe an opportunity for some who have always fancied a M3W but they have been too expensive.
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Joined: Jan 2024
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OP
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I still can’t get to the bottom of numbers. MMC don’t respond to my emails. Personally I don’t think chassis failure is a foregone conclusion. Just much more likely than the better managed fabrication of the later version. A big part of it design wise may well be the triangular brace that was retro fitted. The bolt in is very sturdy between the rails but the centre clamp is fairly weak in its design. Mind was not that tight and I may well weld it in place as I don’t trust it to do its job.
I have to say I do like that internal sleeving method shown above.
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,673 Likes: 25
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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A solution is available for those who have nightmares about broken chassis tubes on the older M3W - a chassis upgrade at M3W Services. The results are shown in the attached pictures. Thanks for sharing the photos Laurens - I am very interested to hear how the driving experience improves with the strengthened chassis. In particular, is vibration through the steering wheel reduced?
Andy
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