Talk Morgan Forums Community Vehicle Talk (non-Morgan) buying an EV

My Tesla is much like all else that is digitally controlled, it has far too many functions just as did my then new camera circa 10 years ago, the more functions the more my memory is required to attempt toscroll through them to achieve the required outcome, and on so many different devices, memory not being my strong point, all of which can cause some degree of confusion, more so when it seems the programmers logic seems to defy my own sense of logical progression when seeking what used to be a simple outcome arrived at by selecting just the right switch...

Think my Tesla was circa £44k ish when bought new, and at two years old with circa 3k miles on the clock I think it`s imagined market value by in insurance company was circa £25k when seeking to re-insure, which to me would seem to make it a pretty good buy as a low mileage second hand car, and perhaps more so given it is unlikely to require anything like the possible maintenance issues of an ICE propelled car on a mile for mile basis, given the majority of the complexity would seem likely to be in the software and not requiring the number of sensors, wiring and associated electrical connections that are required in an ICE to minimise it`s exhaust emissions...?

On the other hand insurance costs seem high, which may be down to EV`s being written off rather than repaired, even for that which seems rather minor damage, which may be related to the garage not being up to speed in terms of trained staff to repair EV`s and no doubt the regulatory requirements/cost relative to training, insurances and equipment required...?

While I am very happy I can still enjoy driving my Morgan by being selective in terms of weather and time of day when I seem likely to find my local roads mostly free of traffic, just as in comedy, timing is everything.. (-:

On the other hand, as a basic and seemingly efficient transportation device, my Tesla seems likely to make allowances in some aspects of judgement by means of driver aids which may well suit the old man I have become, and which seems to ease the concerns I might have relative to possible marginally declining abilities which many baby boomers may experience in the passage of time ...?

Howard, while we may become a tad more sensitive around the 11th day of the 11th month relative to the gross carnage and destruction occasioned in two world wars, I suspect maintaining divisions so related can go on and on and on to to disadvantage a population in general, such as decrying the engineering prowess of Mr Porsche who after all gave the world one of the most popular peoples cars it has known, along with one of the most iconic of sports cars....? In terms of engineering advance I can think of at least one other notable name from the same former enemy, Werner von Braun, who`s inventions were used against the UK at the time, and seem to have benefitted mankind in the decades since...??? My guess is that there will be many many more examples where it seems best to confine the past to the history books, lest we continue to disadvantage ourselves and humanity in general, by maintaining divisions..of which there seem to be some glaring examples available today..? But then human nature is what it is, is it not..?

Apologies for the late reply and more so if someone else answered this.

Most that have affected the UK have come from EU mandates. Even with the UK leaving the EU, at times the UK accepts them or the manufacturers simply add these EU mandated features to cars coming here.

I am not aware of specific US or other country/region mandates but I'm sure major ones are built into a global offering. Sadly, with the introduction of WLTP where options that affect weight must be tested to provide an accurate co2 level, large region wide safety mandates and OEMs wanted to simplify manufacturing, we get stuck in such situations.

Digressing here a bit, but it's quite an eye opener to see just how complex designing a car for the global market when you get into details that most would never know existed. For example, interior heating and cooling systems are often engineered twice. A heating system for cold climates and one for warm due to a warm climate area not needing a heating system to the same degree. I don't know the reasons for this but it happens. So testing and engineering go into setting up the mix/match of said systems for different regions. It's maddening.

I am about to get my new company car, an Audi Q4, and will be interested to see how the updates to these safety systems have panned out.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure this is limited to EVs.

I've been told by a few people, within the insurance industry, that certain parts to repair cars are still in short supply; this leads to long lead-times in terms of repairing undriveable cars and putting them back on the road. As many policies require the insurer to provide a similar vehicle on loan, whilst the car is off the road, the cost in doing so is often prohibitive. A friend recently had his car written off because the garage informed the insurance company that they would be unable to attain the necessary parts for 2-months, and even were they able to, they were still booking six weeks in advance! Insurance company looked at the cost of keeping said friend in a rental car for eight weeks+ and decided it was cheaper for them to write the car off and agree a figure with him.

We are now (perhaps have been for some time!) in an era where cars have become disposable items, in this case due to commercial reasons; however, as a whole, the product seems to now be lumped in with many other products that have inbuilt obsolescence. Personally, I struggle to view cars as disposable items but perhaps that is out of date thinking.

Thanks for adding that scenario Simon, I think it may have been exacerbated by Covid relative to the production of spare parts to some extent along with Russia's war on Ukrane, given it seems some Porsche and no doubt other German car manufacturers may have had parts manufactured there...?

On the insurance front, my then 10 year old Porsche agreed value insurance policy @ £65k cost me considerably less than my Tesla to insure, which at the time as I have already typed was valued at 1 year old @ circa £25k, thus while hire cars and parts supply may be a factor in all insurances, it seems the large difference in premiums seem to suggest EV`s may be loaded over and above ICE for additional reasons....?

I think the hype about battery explosions may have died down a bit now, thus it will be interesting to not any changes to insurance cost when next it comes time to renew, given insurance on both the cars mentioned expire on the same day...!

Just to add, last time I went looking for insurance apparently NFU did not take on EV`s...? Seems Aviva may be targeting EV customers at the moment given their TV advertising...?

Tomorrow’s FT front page states that Ford are announcing 4000 job to be lost in Europe primarily due to complex EV production/ EV ICE Quotas and strong Chinese competition . 800 of these to be in U.K.. It may just be designed to put
considerable pressure on the Government to move away from large fines for failures in meeting EV sales targets.
When it goes wrong with governments failing to meet targets they move the goalposts or sensible safeguards. Heat pumps now a metre from your neighbour will be allowed nearer , get bigger boxes and generate more noise just to try to meet unrealistic arbitrary targets.
Add VW production is woes and Morgans market issues pale into insignificances in the complex world of motor manufacturing.

I know that a tee shirt can be manufactured for under 50p and wholesaled at £1 but I wonder what a bog standard Ford Focus or similar, manufacturing cost really is ??

The real issue for vehicle manufacturers is the continuously raised emissions standards, EV's etc. and the associated development costs having to be incurred with increasingly often shorter intervals between each new more demanding standard being amortised across the current production cycle and recovered in sales prices.

The development window is shorter, it encourages unfortunately software cheating and current independent research is questioning whether we are getting the emission reductions expected in the real world operation. The damage of dieselgate on many manufacturers balance sheets should not be underestimated it has dramatically reduced their resources to reinvest and develop and forced car prices increasingly higher.

When fundamental decisions like moving from leaded to unleaded are being questioned by the recommending research leaders at the time based on wider empirical evidence available now. Simply because leaded emission particles are heavier and fall quicker to the ground then unleaded particles which are suspended in the air for longer and absorbed more, and are more carcinogenic.

The latest new car launched by Lexus was the LBX not an EV, but a 1.5L IC powered self charging Hybrid

Loosely associated with comments on increasingly strict emissions is the discussion I had with a Royal Enfield bike dealer. The bike I collected is built to Euro 5 but he mentioned from next year the newer Euro 5+ or 5b compliance will bring the usual round of ECU firmware updates following engines pickup hesitancy, stalling at lights etc. which he was dreading.

Not really John because if the government stick to their guns, we wont have an option long term but to buy these new leccy cars. What we currently drive cannot be maintained for ever. So it will be a balance question, balancing what the manufacturers can manufacture at cost wise with the numbers of people able to pay the much higher prices involved.

Not sure what standard changes there ever will be to full EVs - after all they make no emissions

Howard ... think John was just lumping EVs in with standards changes as part of 'threats to ICE' ... however, if anyone thinks that those who seek to remake our society in their image won't extend their zealotry to EVs once they have driven ICE off the road they're deluding themselves ... current EVs are ripe for regulation ... there's absolutely no need for a 2 ton block of flats to do 0-60 in 2.7 secs like the Tesla X-type .... we'll see regs to pull them back to luke-warm travel pods via weight restrictions (and therefore battery power available) on the grounds of tyre/brake particulate reduction, road-safety and reduction in raw material useage .... reductions in range (you know using personal transport for anything not strictly required and local consigns us all to climate-death you selfish planet-murderer!!!!) Public transport only for any permitted longer journeys and bike for anyone not disabled for short stuff ... the wholemeal-hobbits have scented blood in their successes against the evil car and won't stop anywhere this side of medieaval levels of personal mobility! 😁

K