Talk Morgan Forums Community Vehicle Talk (non-Morgan) The Decline of Car Dealers?...

* Disclaimer - rant ahead, if you don't feel like reading one, click away now!

In recent years, I've noticed a trend at mainstream dealerships, possibly worse at large chains who have various brands and locations within their group. The trend seems to be to offer the We Buy Any Car price as a trade-in value on the owners car rather than looking at what they could retail it for themselves, less prep costs and margin they want to make.

In the past, dealers seemed to rely on Glasses Guide, etc, for valuations, but now they simply put the reg of the trade-in into WBAC and get a rock bottom price (the WBAC price generally being what they believe they will get at auction + £500)

In January, I called a few dealerships and discussed the option for trading my daily driver in for a, used, year-old version of the same car. After jumping through the hoops where the person on reception asks for all your information, stopping just short of waist size and trouser length!, so that the dealership can market to you (even when you ask them not to), you get put through to a sales person. I've done the dance enough times that the 'their car you called about is wonderful but in spite of being similar, your trade-in is less than ideal' has become old and tiring. However, the 'new' valuation process seems yet another backward step in the automotive industry. For reference, my trade-in was one owner, always serviced at a main dealer (with a full service history) and, albeit older, the type of stock they still appear to retail.

The most recent call resulted in the dealer coming back with an offer of 30% less for my car than the sticker price of a similar car they are retailing, with higher mileage, at a different branch of the same dealership chain. When I popped my car into WBAC, sure enough, I got the same price they had offered, and of course, not a pound off the car they had in stock (which they hadn't even depreciated to a level that compensated for the loss of the VAT when the car was registered new). Before calling him back, I popped their car into WBAC and the silence on the phone when I told him what the price to change was on WBAC price to WBAC price was amusing. Needless to say, no deal was done and they've just prompted me to stick with what I have.

I'm a realist, I know dealerships have to make a healthy margin but offering rock bottom trade price on a trade-in, when it is obvious they can sell it just seems lazy and a state of the automotive industry.

I know manufacturers are moving towards the 'Tesla' business model of online purchase, at a fixed price, and a dealership, staffed with one person, handing the car over when you collect the new vehicle, is the vision they'd all like to move to. Great for the manufactures selling new cars, less so for dealerships, who will get a one off handling fee and then rely on servicing, and (one would have thought) used car sales, to make profit.

However, where does that leave the pre-owned car market? I do understand that mainstream dealers may not want to hold stock in this economy but I've always felt that if you've got a cared for trade-in, which isn't from the ark, it must be worth them retailing it rather than putting it into the trade; however, recent experience, on two cars (one less than two years old and being sold on behalf of a family member) would seem to imply differently.

I can't decide if it is the desperate cash grab of commerce (try it enough and they'll get lucky and buy cars cheap!) or whether it is a move towards carrying less stock and therefore reducing the overheads of the business. Perhaps it also feels like one more step to automation; akin to being at a supermarket and one of the staff working the check-out pointing at the 'self service' terminals and say "it may be quicker if you use one of those..." ...less staff, less overheads, clearly defined and regimented processes, hence more 'round peg into a round hole', all done by one single person who doesn't have to think but simply pushes buttons?

On the other hand, at least they offer the WBAC book price rather than the WBAC "We've had a look at it now and we're going to knock a load of money off our offer"

When I bought my Honda CRV I chopped in a frankly rather knackered Freelander that I was quite glad they didn't examine in detail, and was happy with the offer. When I bought the Mini SE I traded a Fiat 500 with no service history and again was happy with the offer.

The big difference for me with the sales experience was the treatment I got when they found out I wasn't going to be financing the car. At the Honda dealership it was like a switch had been flipped, as soon as they found out I was actually going to be paying for the thing the salesman couldn't give a toss any more and dropped all the pretence at friendliness. At the BMW dealer by contrast, they were perfectly happy to take all my money in one go and were really friendly, especially when we turned up in the Morgan to collect the Mini, a few of them came out to have a look.

Simon try Car Wow. I bought my MG milk float via using them. Saved £1500 vs the local guy.

Depending on age of car you are selling/trading try Motorway.

We are seeing a major change in used and new car retail. Our local Marshalls Land Rover dealer will no longer sell cars - it will be a service depot only with car sales being handled at a larger branch further away. The industry seems to be making it harder to deal face to face.

I don’t know what to think about this. I am not their real target as I tend to buy a tin top at two years old and keep it until it is starting to cost a King’s ransom in repairs before trading it in at some derisory value just so I can avoid dealing with the great unwashed or WBAC.

If I don’t need a tow car next time, the change won’t bother me as there are large dealers for most major brands that are within 8 miles of here.

The pretence of consulting a manager over a part exchange deal will hopefully disappear which will make me happier. And, in spite of us telling slimy sales person that we don’t want finance or alloy wheel insurance, there is the faintest of possibilities that they could actually listen to us.

There is great pressure on the dealer channel, this does not excuse the muppetry which I agree is now the norm. I have had some experience in providing a service to that market and suspect it may become a blood bath in the next few years.

We lost our very good MB dealer recently as it got sold to one of the big chains. I no longer go there for servicing as the place is a farce and prices have gone up noticeably. With the bigger chains they are dismantling the integrated site as you outline. Your call would no longer go to a "salesperson" but a central call team which treat it like a general enquiry for broadband. This centralised team means they can carry less salesreps. The level of "qualification" on your call would aim to reduce timewasters, but culls traditional customers.

I tried to buy a 2 year old MB E63 estate, not exactly peanuts. I found a car at MB Basingstoke. I called, got grilled then was told the car was not in Basingrad but at Newbury (same chain). I called after waiting for their "call back" for 2 days and was told if I wanted to test drive it I had to put down a £100 deposit over the phone to hold it. I said I lived 20 minutes away and if it sold before I got there then that was my bad luck. I got pushed for the deposit before I got out in the car and just called their bluff. After that I decided to go elsewhere.

They make more money on secondhand cars than on new ones in most cases so do not underestimate their interest in that area.

It will be interesting to see how the Chinese car makers work with the dealerships, I expect many of them will look to go as direct as possible. Lets face it the margins were already thin with people like CarWow driving price pressure. WBAC was sold to British Car Auctions some time ago, they are huge.

Turning sites into spares and repairs where they can add value makes more sense in some ways. With BEV needing less engineering time that is also going to become a thin market as well I suspect.

There is a lot of interest by the manufacturers in just having a shop experience in a high street where you go on the touch screen and choose the model, colour and spec then it is delivered to your door. Tesla get a lot of the blame for triggering this. However right now the inertia in the dealer channels and tight budgets would preclude that sort of investment.

It very much feels like a race to the bottom.

Bearing in mind that for many years cars have been built in such a way as only the dealership could work on them and that is where they made their money what will happen when all cars are electric and don't require hardly any maintenance and dealers only earn from sales ?

I agree on all points; however, weren't Tesla the first to normalise it within the automotive sector? MB have followed suit, as have Volvo and I have been told that BMW are well on their way.

My initial post is definitely fragmented in terms of the point. On one hand I dislike the 'stick it on WBAC' approach that now seems too common; however, more concerning is the relentless march towards automation of services that once had a 'people' element. As much as customers could bemoan the stereotypical sheepskin coat wearing salesman and 'let me speak with my manager' patter, I had some great relationships with some very helpful and competent people at dealerships. It sounds like you had similar with your MB dealership Alistair. Perhaps it is me getting old but buying a car online isn't appealing to me.

On that note, a younger extended family member recently bought a new Tesla. All done online, collecting it from one of their delivery centres, with one person there to hand over. Chap exclaimed, it is all prepared for you when said family arrived and by that he meant it had been washed and then left out in the rain, which had then dried. When asked to inspect the car, the 'hand over assistant' was asked if he could clean it first, so that it could be checked over properly... after a huff, he drove it around the back and it came back looking slightly better. After the check over, one of the 'automated' door handles was sticking and the answer to that was 'take delivery and then call Tesla support and they will send someone mobile out to fix it'. So the brand new Model Y was driven away, with passenger door handle sticking. When speaking to my family member, who is a Tesla fan, he had to admit that the handover was disappointing but quickly followed up with 'but they were quick to fix the door handle and one other niggle on the driveway of my house!' And, to them, that was a win! So, perhaps it is also a generational thing and what you are used to / and are your expectations?

Each to their own but I'm not quite ready for our robot AI overlords quite yet (Sarah Connor signing off)

It's the way of the world, my last 5 car deals have been without part exchange (2 of them for Morgans) where I have bought the car online, sight unseen and in 2 cases had the car delivered to my house unseen. There are enough consumer protections for online deals .should the car not be as represented you can return it. Long gone are the days when Mercedes dealers would have a bouquet of flowers for her nibs and you leave with a full tank of fuel.

If you start from the premise that when purchasing a used car there is usually a reason why it's been sold by the previous owner, that often a short test drive won't necessarily uncover, I've found my limited mechanical knowledge adds no further value in the buying decision. If I need further assurance then I would get an independent inspection. As long as you purchase from reliable dealerships. with proven track record, know the history of the car etc. and it has an excellent mechanical warranty attached, you usually can't go too far wrong, subject to the general following enquiries I make prior to purchase for any vehicle.

When dealing with Morgan dealers with one really notable exception, some of my most revealing questions about a used Morgan is frequency of service, last king pin change and age of the tyres followed by a review of its MOT history, which tells you an awful lot about the car, its annual mileage history and how well maintained it wasn't . Service history I take with a pinch of salt, as I had Morgans with excellent service history and rusted in spark plugs and wheels spinners almost impossible to take off, something not obvious in a test run or inspection of the engine bay. If the service invoices are there then they are usually more helpful in seeing what work was actually done, than just a stamp in the service book. The number of Morgans in my experience that are up for sale with old low mileage tyres on them, never ceases to amaze me.

I just from experience factor into the price a detailed full service where everything is taken off or comes out with Lifes Motors, irrespective of any inhouse service performed prior to the collection/delivery of the car. And its been amazing what Lifes find on that service.

Its not just my experience but the number of times on this forum someone buys a used Morgan and they have problems not long afterwards, is more a reflection on the trade, than peoples buying ability or experience.

My last car got scraped when some idiot ran in the back of me .So rang large main dealer about a new car paying cash no part ex i asked the sales person what would he knock off he said i can knock the wing mirrors off .lost a customer.