Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms The end of diesel?

Remember when we were all encouraged to buy diesel powered cars because they produced less CO2 than petrol.
Now the FIAT group are discontinuing diesel engines. From the next style updates FIAT and Alfa Romeo will only be producing mild hybrid (petrol) and battery electric vehicles.
At the same time the region of Piemonte is banning, from October, all diesel cars that are less than Euro 5 from cities of over 30,000 inhabitants. This, if not postponed, will make 250,000 vehicles of people who live in Piemonte unable to enter towns such as Torino, Asti, Novara and Alessandria.
I understand the concern about polution but since the introduction of exhaust fine carbon particle filters that problem has largely been solved except for the fact that all vehicles, even BEV, produce fine carbon particles from brakes and tyres. The other issue with diesel engines is NOx; at least with Euro 6 vehicles that use AdBlue also that problem has been largely solved and it remains that diesel produces less CO2 and consumes less fuel than equivalent petrol powered vehicles.
I can't help feeling that the enactment of regulations like this are more political than based on actual reality of the issue of polution and global warming.

I would agree Peter. Why let facts get in the way.

It's certainly true that Euro6 diesels are a great deal cleaner than earlier iterations, but it's worth remembering that the economies of diesel only really kick in when moderate to high daily mileages are being driven, and for the vast majority of car drivers, most of whom live in urban and suburban areas, this simply isn't the case. For shorter daily mileages petrol is a much better alternative.

Then we come to BEV and hybrid technology, which has moved the goalposts. Diesels aren't competing against petrol any more so much as electricity, and it's difficult to justify the use of diesel where much more appropriate solutions exist, especially in the urban/short journey environment where most cars spend most of their time.

Times change, along with technology, environmental understanding, and politics/social priorities. What made sense 20 or 30 years ago isn't necessarily still the best solution today. We are starting to see some pretty major improvements in air quality in inner-city areas like London - 27% reduction in NO2, 30% particulates. This is bringing genuine benefits to people's lives.

It's only a matter of time before the ICE is effectively killed off. Start with the 'perceived' dirty versions first eg pre Euro 6 diesels, then start on the petrol pre Euro 6 versions banning them from urban conurbations and so on by continuously raising the Euro regulation requirements for entry till the point even Euro 7 ICE will be banned from clean air zones and keep extending the 'no go' areas till its almost impossible or uneconomic to use an ICE.

The writing is on the wall ,it's gaining momentum and coming quicker than you think or hope for..

Our 2015 BMW B47 engined F55 Mini attracts only £35 VED (although Rachel from accounts may have added a small percentage on) and is ULEZ compliant. Given our government not being likely to miss a trick speaks volumes in regard of this engines low emmisions, complying with current Euro 6 regulations. Some other diesel engined cars have attracted as little as zero VED in the UK, the same as BEV's until current tax year. I cannot see the logic of discontinuing production other than to align with current brain washing. The advantages of hybrid diesel cars would seem an unexplored avenue.

Sue's Mercedes SLK AMG diesel auto is a Euro 6, one of the very last to enjoy the very low £35 VED, for a car that can do over !50 mph and 6.6 secs 0 to 62 mph, goes like a stink with 368 ft lbs of torque from a 2.1 litre engine, capable of close to 70 mpg at a constant 70 mph (even with the roof down) with the engine only ticking over at about 1400 revs in 9th at that speed.

Quite a car which Mercedes no longer makes since the SLC finished in 2021. although the diesel variant finished in 2017 and something we will keep as long as possible, as yet there is nothing to compete with its performance, economy and cleaner emissions short of an EV.

I suspect projected customer demand would be the main driver. I believe the big problem with diesel hybrids is coming up with a way to run the diesel generator in a way that plays to diesel strengths whilst allowing a clean emissions profile in stop-start urban environments. Current manufacturers seem to be wedded to the idea of having a mechanical drive train operating alongside the electric motors.

I thought this a neat plug in hybrid solution by BMW substituting electric motor for torque convertor in their 8HP ZF auto box



Take your point about matching diesel engine characteristics to use in hybrid environment. I remember very many years ago when the hybrid concept was first muted how the IC engine could be designed to achieve greater efficiency by running near constant rpm and load whilst battery power filled in the gaps.

I think this view is a rather outdated idea that does not apply to diesels with modern engine management systems.

Well, the forums seem to have plenty of reports of Euro6 diesels suffering from DPF problems when used for short journeys. Like I said, there's no doubt that Euro6 diesels are a lot cleaner than their predecessors, and they are permitted in many(all?) ULEZ zones, but there's equally no doubt that as an engine solution they are falling out of favour for use in smaller capacity cars typical of the type built by FIAT. I don't find it in the least surprising that they are stopping making them.