Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Gearbox oil change on R380

Hi Laurie

I have a 1996 +4 4 seater. My comments, relevant or otherwise, as a learner DIY home mechanic:

I have the R380. It can be clunky when changing into 2nd gear, mainly when the gearbox oil is cold. Searching on the internet, I believe this may be a common issue with this box (and the 4wd versions fitted to Land-Rover vehicles.). Slower changes and/or double de-clutching, when the gearbox oil is cold, seem to help. It is not much of an issue once the oil is at working temperature.

I was lucky to have an access hole provided, I think, or maybe i fed a fill tube down from the handbrake slot? I think I have a recolection of using a torx socket and a spanner, the same as someone above mentioned.

I have changed my unknown previous oil for a generic MT94 spec oil. It may have improved the change slightly but not transfomed it. I don't knoiw whether the branded gearbox oils work better (as recommended on Gomog). I am a cheapskate and have vowed to change regularly with cheaper, rather than less often with expensive.

I had the little steel cup, at the base of the gear lever, re-welded, which saved a rattle and may help slightly with selection or wear and tear.

I had to remove the gearbox cover, to replace my handbrake cable. While I had the cover off, I noticed the selector remote bushes were perishing or torn. I replaced them with poly bushes. I don't think gear selection had been compromised but I was glad to do the job while I was at it (I also changed the gearbox mountings, while I had access, as they were showing signs of age).

Maybe some of the above is a help, in some way.

David

For Laurie AND David


Hi David,

We are all "home mechanics". Hobbyists are very different from professionals.

As I briefly mentioned, the R380s made before February 1999 had a problem. I bought my first of three 2wd R380 in 1999 as I was advised confidentially by a LR bigwig in 1998, to wait and make SURE the box was made after that date. My suppliers of the three boxes, bought a different times, were the MMC and the very sweet John Eales. As a head's up, aside from the Sheally experience, I have never had an issue with any of these R380s in almost 300,000 miles. I fear the issue my contact was worried about has appeared. David Ashcroft speaks of it on his site. I can contact hi if you wish. However, Rover Plus 8 gearbox work is an engine out job.

You might be interested to know that a 2wd R380 is extremely sought after now. I have a please-find-one list a km long. A used box is now worth double and more than what I paid for them 25 years ago. I am idly (PUN!) thinking of a T-5 variant or a Aero final ratio.

Lorne

Hi again Laurie!


The access to the speedo connection is yet another access, and yours is placed like mine. I fear you may have not lift the leather shroud on the gearbox high enough on the other side. The filler is much farther forward than the speedo on the others side. It is merely a little sliding disc that allows you to remove the filler plug with the long end of an Allen key and fill from you driver's footwell. Though LT77s have their filler/drain plugs all over the place, that is not the case with the ultra rare 2wd R380s


Cars are design to be much easier to manufacture, with nothing in the way, than to repair. The later aluminum gearbox covers are nothing special..merely much easier and cheaper to make than the earlier covers. (I have had both in my Morgans) I won't dwell on this. 😠


Oh yes. A pig of a job for a car famous for being owner friendly. I don't have the patience for nonsense. It adds 5 hours to any of the many minor, otherwise 15 minute jobs home mechanics need to do in that area. The savvy dealers with Morgans all do the same.


No. Jacking and jack stands arean ABC basic for a Morgan home garagiste..a small lever jack and 4 jack stands. They are cheap and absolutely vital. A trad is a super light and little vehicle.

JACK https://shorturl.at/KCuRC

4 STANDS https://tinywebs.site/8zrKSf

Once you have your car on stands, take a look under adjacent (driver's side) to the gearbox. Do you see the drain?

https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/MorganR380filler&Drain.jpg

When you at that far along. Ask for another email. But it is very simple form then on. Assuming you have, on hand,
1. a crush washer for the drain
2. a big flat pan for the oil to drain
3. the right Alloen key (for the filler)
4. the right spanner or socket to remove the drain plug.

But you always discover that the cost of the tools you need is less than what a mechanic will charge you with the added benefit that get to keep the tools!

Lorne

For those actually undertaking the oil change (R380) as opposed to just talking about it, it is NOT an Allen key but a Cranked socket key by TORX T55 which is a totally different tool, it is also available in 1/2” drive format but I found that a bit cumbersome in the confined area alongside the tunnel.

I wouldn’t like to see any of our own members misled by incorrect information being printed as above re Allen key !! This is not what we do on Talkmorgan, we research and actually do the job ourselves and report back accurately to help others treading a similar path.

How true! Though facetious to the audience. Moggers have changed so much in 20 years! But there are hand-on tradsters still.

And it may be that tide is turning with the plummet in trad residuals in the UK. Likely the best thing that has happened to the trad community in decades. The resultant new buyers are trying trads and they are not the sorts that can tolerate the incredible spike in the cost of disappearing Morgan expertise. I just privately walked two of these stalwarts through just this task successfully in the last week and others are pending now...


The problem with hobbyist mechanics, (which Morgan most forums are made for)[/i], is that they are far more likely to have a set of Allen keys than torx set. I have learned it is best to keep frustration as low as possible for new mechanical adventurers. It is not the cost of new tools that turns them off, it is the stop-and-go of having to get the precisely correct tool every few minutes. With a torx fitting this large and only mildly torqued plug, an Allen key will do just fine. Anyone can google that. Are you suggesting they buy the perfect tool for every task they will do once every five years? Trust me, they won't do it.


Wow! You have apparently never tried the Allen key method. Do this community a small favour. Please take a single moment and try (the right) Allen key and report here again. You wisely suggested that yourself.

Be well.

Lorne

P.S.
Update. Make that 3

Hi Lorne,

Firstly thanks for all the assistance so far :-)

Just popped out to the garage and I can confirm there are no openings on the drivers side of the gearbox tunnel, so everything would need to be from the bottom.

I suggested the garage ramps as my garage has the unusual and unusefull feature of being sloped, by over a foot from back to the front. Hence jacking is only safe at one end of the other with chocks under the other set of wheels.

I will jack the car up at the weekend and see if access is possible from the under side.

I need to order the crush washer and oil. I will also order a spare grub screw as suggested on your site. I was thinking of getting the polybushes, I am assuming I need 8?

Regards

Laurie

I just did Google it and it says “Torx 55 (T55) fitting will not work properly with a standard Allen key (hex key). While you might find a hex key that fits loosely into the hole, the star-shaped T55 requires a matching 6-lobe tool to transfer torque without damaging the bolt”

Then again what would I know, I’m no mechanic either

(sigh) I got a different answer, Craig. But why don't we buy both, my treat, and you try. I will need your address. Send it to lg@ guess where
I and a growing group of others over the last 30 years merely have the experience.

Use the long end of the Allen key to reach the plug and then turn the short end with some vice-grips or a spanner circle end. Those plugs are not torqued much.

Lorne

P.S. Craig, what R380 Morgan do you have, and do you have the little access door circlet in the gearbox cover?

..er.... my pleasure!


I think the staff made a little mistake with your car.. It happens. I will not dwell on this.

I have prepared some diagrams for you to better explain. (below) I have never heard of a Morgan R380 filler car without the circular little "access door" in the gearbox cover. Those newer covers, illustrated below, reduced a lot of precious footwell space for owners. But they are much less effort to make than the earlier ones. Beware they also have thick heat insulation on the inside. I am not sure how you can slip your hand, with a plug opening tool, then a filler tube and then fill the box upwards easily. Then you must replace the hotly debated plug. I have never run across that. Even when I installed R380s in my 1984 and my 1990 with their older steel gearbox covers, I simply made little access panels for the R380 fillers. My 2002 came with the panel. See below.

The problem will come if you cannot find have sufficient access. Without an access panel or any compromises, the seats, the propshaft tunnel, the propshaft tunnel abutment at the rear, and that big bulky gearbox cover must be removed (which on your later car may require the removal the heating system along with the top of the safety brake). The later cars do not have much room above the gearbox over and the plug is towards the rear. Though I have done these tasks for other reasons, I have honestly never attempted this sequence for a gearbox refill.. Removing the engine is easier. And I am far more familiar with that!


(ugh) get your life-partner pay you to danger pay!


Best game plan. I expect you to report!


Buy a few. They're cheap and saves the hassles next time. A little roll of petrol PTFE tape is a good idea as well..at least it is for me. You can also buy a spare filler and drain, wise with a sloped garage floor. (wryly)
https://www.jgs4x4.co.uk/gearbox-oil-level-plug-r380-defender-discovery-1-discovery-2-rrc-ftc4056/

But if you wish to avoid discussions on what you use to remove on your torx plug, merely buy the filler plug for the LT77. It is interchangeable with the R380's and that LT77 filler has a square head. (make sure of they send you a LT77 plug! They are also 1/3 the price with a 50 year history of reliability. Buy 2-3. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141154145131


Where did you get so smart?!!! There are 8 per Sd1 remote, 4 per side and 4 at the remote's front where it joins the gearbox case..some for LT77s and R380s.

Here are your made-order-diagrams. Lorne

UPG & Lorne,

TORX 55

Here is your solution £14 worth of tooling to solve the factories failure to provide an inspection cover in the tunnel.

Craig. As a fellow engineer albeit it another area you also appreciate the need for using the correct fitting tool for the job, the slide into bodging country is not an area we are used to.

You not owning an R380 gearbox is another example of the sniping we sadly have come to expect from the poorer side of the Morgan information sites.
It is irrelevant what you run and own it's the spirit of wanting to help people out is why Talkmorgan thrives and others have withered on the vine, most part due to fragile ego.

There is only one question Lorne needs to ask and that is why the TORX were invented, he will then realise why the Allen is inappropriate as a bodge fit from an engineering integrity not legal perspective🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🙏

Stay well all of you and just get the job done hey 😎🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏄‍♂️🏖it’s an oil change not giving birth🤣

Amongst all this just remember to remove the filler plug first