Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Monty Takes A Deep Breath

Dave, That reminds me of a Cosworth head. You've got a thing of beauty. Of course you are so right about having an all round drive which hits the sweet spot..... ask a Ferrari man sitting at the lights in town on a hot day, now that's a look of panic! With the Morgan you only have to stuff one element and it can ruin your driving pleasure. Unless of course you are aiming for a track car or similar. I once had a friend who had an RS 1600 escort and he was obsessed with lightening his flywheel and on his third attempt at getting it as light as he could he rogered it. So for a quick resolution he fitted a new standard flywheel and was shocked to find that it was the best drive he could remember from the car!

Re the shock absorber orientation. We had briefly chatted about it and I had said about the possibility of fitting the rutherford telescopic conversion which puts the mounting points in the correct orientation. Well I phoned Tim and had a brief chat asking if it was possible to fit these and still retain the hoop as it carried h/brake and wiring etc. plus of course gene some rear impact protection. He seemed fairly vague about what I was asking and suggested that I sent him some pictures of my car showing what I have got. I explained that it was a standard 2010 car and I just wanted to know if the Rutherford top mount brackets could be fitted without interference nit I kept the hoop. Long and short of it..... I gave up! I thought I was asking a fairly simple question but evidently not. Anyway I promised to let you know how it went after talking with him.

Martin.

Good result, I love the BDA cam cover too

Keep going with the videos, I've subscribed and have been enjoying them

Ok so Monty is now safely with James at M2R Motorsport, he fitted Monty's current Newman Phase 2 cams and I was delighted with his work. James is a Duratec specialist, what he doesn't know about this amazing little engine isn't worth knowing.

https://www.m2rmotorsport.com/

James is also very easy to deal with and manages my OCD personality brilliantly, probably because he's equally obsessed with the detail, for example we'll be taking the opportunity during the head swap to say goodbye to Monty's rusty exhaust manifold nuts!



We're going with flashed copper M10 flange nuts from Wurth, in my experience Wurth fasteners are excellent quality.



Being flashed copper, they're also going to look period correct and should contrast nicely against Monty's Sport Green aluminium cam cover that was skillfully wet pinted by my good friend Aston Martin (yes, thats his real name).



Finally, and sticking with the exhaust side of things, James will be adding this resonator to the straight pipe up the back.



It's a straight through design so just intended to take the edge off the volume noow Monty will keep makingbpower all the way out to 7,500rpm.



With my custom Fusion Fabrications exhaust system we started out loud! It's was hilarious fun from day one and instantly gave Monty huge carachter, but I think I've completely blown the sports cat and silencer box internals out now with my pops & bangs map.



Over the last couple of years Monty has gone from loud, to ASBO mental loud, especially over 4,000rpm! In theory, the new rear stainless steel cherry bomb resonator should just take the edge off the scream and help me get through the Castle Combe decibel test this year instead of getting banned, which is exactly what happened at the Williams Morgan charty track day last year

Hopefully we'll retain the sporty bark, but the resonator should just reduce the volume a touch, while also adding some fruity 'parp parp' notes during heel & toe gear changes.

With Monty now safely in the care of M2R Motorsport and awaiting surgery, my thoughts once again turn to estimating what we'll achieve from this next phase of tuning work? While researching all this I stumbled on the following video that puts a Mountune MR200 ST150 up against a similarly tuned Duratec converted Mk2 Escort, the only real difference between the two Duratec powered cars is the Escort is on ITBs, while the ST150 is using Mountune's long runner single throttle inlet.



At this point I should explain Monty's long runner Fusion Fabrications inlet is essentially a copy of the rare, expensive, and hard to find Mountune MR200 inlet, so in theory it should give exactly the same results. Both this Escort and the Mountune MR200 ST150 will also have a set of camshafts with similar lift, duration and overlap to the the Newman Phase 3 cams being fitted to Monty next week.

The Montune MR200 recipe has long since been my benchmark for what I'm looking to achieve with Monty, it was so good Ford fully endorsed it, back in the day you could actually walk into your local Ford dealership and buy a brand new ST150 then specify the MR200 kit that had to be fitted by Mountune themselves and nobody else, in turn Ford would give you their full new car warrantee.

As the components I've chosen for Monty are directly modeled on the the Mountune MR200 kit, the ST150 in the video is an excellent reference point for what we could potentially achieve, here's the dyno graph showing the ITB equiped Escort against the Mountune ST150:



And here are the horsepower and torque numbers delivered by the Fiesta:



The Escort's Duratec on ITBs makes 207.6hp, while the ST150 with its Mountune inlet comes in lower at 202.3hp, so theres only 5.9hp in it at the top end. The single throttle inlet Fiesta (Monty's setup) makes 10hp less than the ITB equiped Escort in the 3,000rpm to 3,500rpm window, but above this it starts to close the gap. However, look how the Mountune inlet consistantly delivers more torque in the same window, and indeed largely everywhere. The Mountune tuned Fiesta ST150 goes on to make peak torque at 5,853rpm, at which point it gives 220 newton metres which is 162 lbs/ft in old money while the ITB Escort gives its best 150 lb/ft and peaking far higher up the rev range at 6,675rpm.

It's a straight trade off between ITB horsepower and the broader more usable torque delivery produced by the long runner single throttle MR200 inlet manifold. In an ideal world, you'd want the excellent ITB horsepower curve of the Escort, but with the fatter torque delivery of the Mountune (Monty style) single throttle inlet. Of course, what neither the ITB equiped Escort or the Mountune MR200 ST150 have that Monty does, is the A.L Developments hand ported big valve head with its exhaust ports further enlarged from 38mm to 40mm.

While for sure both the Escort and ST150 will have good exhaust syetems, stand alone engine management and a set of fast road cams, I'd put money on both of them still running a standard Duratec cylinder head. A.L Developments claim one of their ported cylinder heads should give a 10-15hp gain, but this becomes 20hp if 1mm larger inlet & exhaust valves are chosen as I did. This increase is also based on the standard sized 38mm exhaust ports that we are now bringing out to 40mm on Monty's head. So theoretically, I should make at least 20hp more than the MR200 ST150's 202hp, that means we've created a tuning package that 'in theory' has the potential to get Monty to 222hp!

However, I think my Fusion Fabrications single throttle long runner inlet will probably hold the engine back, afterall it has numerous bends in it which are less than ideal. That's why I've settled on a 213hp target with a nice flat torque curve at peaks at 173 lb/ft but holds over 80% of that from 1,800rpm all the way out to 7,300rpm, after which my soft rev limiter strategy will start to get involved.

What is also 100% proven is James from M2R Motorsport was able to squeeze 207hp out of an ST150 on the standard plastic Ford inlet, this using a good exhaust, a set of Newman Phase 3 cams and running it on a EMU Black ECU like Monty has, but with no head work at all! Basically that's James' own version of the MR200 kit, but without using a slightly more efficient MR200 or Fusion Fabrications long runner inlet, and critically without Monty's ported big valve head. This all points to 207hp + the 20hp from my fancy pants cylinder head, to give Monty 227hp, however, as I say there's a strong possibility Monty's Fusion Fabrications 'curly wurly' inlet will start to hold the engine back over 200hp, I'm pretty sure the reality will be that every horsepower I can secure over the 200 mark will be very hard won indeed!

In summary, my 213hp target and below dyno graph prediction still stands!



Not long now and we'll know for sure if I have achieved my goals?

Wish me luck chaps

Montegue out of interest I have a 2015 Fiesta ST180 with the Mountune MP215 upgrade, I have always been satisfied with the performance. I recently had the cambelt change and it now goes like a stabbed rat, I don't understand why the difference.

Maybe it was previously a tooth out? 🙂

K

Yep, sounds like cam timing to me, just a couple of degrees can make a massive differece

I did wonder.

While the ported big valve head and Newman Phase 3 cams combination has the capacity to make over 240hp, and Monty's 43mm ID inlet runners and 41.6mm ID exhaust primaries should support 10hp less, I believe it's the hot air and especially the bends on the inlet side that'll be what holds him back from delivering his true 230hp potential.

Bends are not good for airflow, but they are an essential function of packaging those torque producing long runners.



The bends start here:



And continue here:



Actually there are bends everywhere on Monty's inlet side.



Turning the air creates boundary layers of stagnant air that become the new internal walls of the intake, these boundary layers effectively create a significantly narrower passage for the usable air to pass through. I believe these bends, and the boundary layers of stagnant air they create, are likely to generate a significant restriction and will be what stops Monty's Duratec from delivering his 230hp potential.

If you study the full setup from air filter to cylinder head inlet ports, it's definitely full of bends, it's probably fine up to 200hp and at lower engine speeds, but I suspect it'll start to become a restriction above that. The boundary layers around the edges of all those bends effectively create a progressively smaller and smaller bore inlet that gets worse as the air speed increases, and at higher engine speeds this is precisely the time the engine will be demanding more air!

The current air filter position is also subject to quite a lot of radiant heat from the exhaust, and the radiator too which is less than ideal. I've carefully logged my inlet air temps and I estimate a cold air intake could be worth as much as 4hp, but it's really the multiple bends throughout the full inlet path that will have more of a negative impact! The solution to it all would be individual throttle bodies, a straight shot of cooler air fired through a set of 43mm Jenvey Heritage ITBs would sound great, look retro cool, and and in theory would deliver Monty's full 230hp potential.

Here's a Caterham on Jenvey Heritage ITBs, OK so it's a Sigma engined Super Seven and those K&N filters do need a small bonnet cut out which I'd want avoid on Monty.





However, I think those K&Ns would just fit under Monty's bonnet without butchering it, as there is more width on a Morgan compared to the super narrow bonnet on a 7.





Maybe the above will end up being the final tuning step for Monty? But for now, I'll be more than happy if I can get to 213hp on the current Fusion Fabrications inlet, and his slightly warmer than ideal air feed.

I promise you this will be my last post on potential Monty power outputs chaps

However, this is a critical one!

Firstly, the following video has proved quite insightful:



Increadibly, this standard Caterham 420R made a whopping 224hp on the factory Caterham short runner inlet manifold

In the video, the owner confirms a 420R uses a stock 2.0 Duratec engine with just a set of fast road cams, stronger valve springs, and the short runner inlet Caterham use on all their 360, 420R, and even the bonkers supercharged 620R although in this case it's made from cast aluminiun rather than plastic. What the video teaches us is we now know with absolutely no head work a 420R can give as much as 224hp, it also proves Caterham's short runner inlet it not a restriction up to this power level, and will probably support a lot more.

Monty already recieved 180lb beehive valve springs when we went with the Phase 2 cams, and very soon he will also have very similar cams to a 420R too, so if I go with the Caterham short runner inlet Monty could make as much as 224hp! However, he's also soon to recieve the A.L Developments hand ported head with 1mm bigger valves and exhaust ports that have been opened up from 38mm to 40mm.

That 420R in the video enjoyed none of this port shaping work, it also operates on the standard sized valves and standard size 38mm exhaust ports, yet despite these disadvantages it is now proven a 420R can still deliver 224hp on that short runner Caterham inlet! So, if now factor in the additional 20hp my A.L Devevopments cylinder head should give, that would give Monty a potential 244hp

In theory, all I need to do to achieve Monty's true potential of 244hp is fit one of these Caterhan short runner inlets!



These Caterham inlets do come up for sale on the secondhand market from time to time as many 420R owners move to individual throttle bodies, there's actually one for sale on Ebay right now and its been sat there unsold for quite a long time too, athough it is plastic and ideally I'd likecan aluminium one. The shape of this inlet suits the tapperd bonnet lines of a Caterham, so it also looks like it would perfectly suit a Morgan perfectly too? I'd certainly be prepared to pay £350 for one just to test it back to back with my FF inlet.

However, I've spent enough already, so lets see what Monty makes on my 'curly wurly' Fusion Fabrications inlet first, but if it kills power to a degree that means I fail to hit at least 213hp, after watching the above video I think fitting a short runner caterham inlet is going to be a no-brainer. There's no question those short runners are'nt tbe best for torque but it is pretty much a cheap guaranteed way to take Monty over 220hp and without resorting to individual throttle bodies.

Saying all that, if I can achieve the following or better result on Monty's current long runner setup, I'll be more than happy with that



There's clearly going to be some sort of (as yet unqualified) trade-off between the excellent top end horsepower potential of the Caterham short runner inlet, and the lovely broad spread of torque the long runner Fusion Fabrication inlet is proven to deliver. However, just how much horsepower those long curved runners on the FF inlet will kill, is as yet unknown?

What I can tell you is... "I'm actually happy to trade as much as 25 horsepower at the top end, for 10 lbs/ft more torque that arrives way earlier and hangs on across a far wider rev band".

Dave.