Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Morgan Rover T16 Pump rattle sorted

Well its been annoying ever since owning this car and I've finnally sorted and found a long time rattle.

I had always known the rattle was on the auxillary belt components and this is what I found

The dog/coupling between the unused power steering pump and water pump had about 1 to 2mm of play, this can easily be felt if the auxilary belt is removed and the drive pulley for these is turned by hand...play will be felt as a clink ..clink sound reverberating back through the shaft to the pulley wheel which acts as a sound amplifier.

The FIX is to find a water pump and power steering drive dogs that have a close fit, the tolerances on even new units is poor ...so find a pair that couple well.
Add some high temp grease to the dog mateing surfaces.

Car now sounds like a sewing machine...so quiet ...now for the next squeak or noise....

DSC_0552 (1) by Robert & Ali Davies, on Flickr

DSC_0555 by Robert & Ali Davies, on Flickr

Good find Rob

Well done Rob. My +4 had a Librands manifold & exhaust so if the pump was an issue I never heard it.

Hi Rob,

I know it's been a while since you posted this, but I have just replaced the coolant pump in my 1996 plus 4 (T16 engine) but now find that the belt-driven drive to it has way too much play, presumed due to bearing wear. The coolant pump was in a very sad state so it's likely to have contributed to the state of the drive.

Any advice on where I may be able to source a replacement pulley-driven drive, as I read somewhere that these may be a Morgan 'special'? Or will I need to get it rebuilt somewhere instead?

Thanks

Hi Martin

I also have a 1996 +4 (4 seater).

Try Brands Hatch / Morgan Kent.

They have a local compqany who refurb the "dummy" aircon pump, which is the drive for the water pump. They had one on the shelf, when mine needed replacement, about 18 months ago. They will exchange old for refurbed, if they have a suitable one on the shelf, otherwise there could be a wait while your's is refurbed. I think the bearing(s) and dog drive are replaced. The cost was something like £280+, if I remember correctly.

I hope they are able to help.

I previously enquired with Allon White but they were unable to offer a similar service at the time.

I started a reply on your thread about torque settings for the engine mounts and water pump cover. I hadn't gone back to my draft when I saw this post. I was going to say that I replaced the wp cover bolts (5 I think) as I read they can deteriorate. I don't know a torque value but it is a balance between getting a seal and not stripping something - I used a short handled spanner or socket driver. I gradually tightened the bolts to keep the pressure on the outer plate even.

I wondered whether you would need to do the dummy aircon pump at the same time. I had a lot of trouble undoing the bolts holding it in place. Access at the pulley end (front) is tricky. I got the whole job done in the end.

It took 3 goes to get the water pump right. Getting the 3 or 4 seals leak-free was a task. My tips:

* Clean up the face plates very carefully. I used a block of wood and fine emery paper, or similar.

* Bed the seals in their grooves with a little RTV sealant.

* Put a bead of RTV sealant over the seals and let go off for about 20-30 minutes before assembling.

* Practice assembling the pump and locating the dog drive before adding the seals and RTV sealant.

* Leaks can come from any of the seals but my problems were with the inner 2 seals, with coolant leaking through a drain hole under the dog coupling.

* I used a bit more RTV in my final (succesfull, I think) go but always tried to avoid too much, as I read it can end up coming away and causing trouble elswhere in the cooling system.

If you have specific questions about any of this, you are welcome to PM me. I am not any kind of expert but did all this work for myself as a novice DIY mechanic, using my mid-rise car lift.

I hope you have success more quickly and easily than I did and are soon back on the road.

For information, my car had 50K miles on it when the drive started clattering, which is what prompted me to work on it. I have not driven the car since as I have had other troubles and had to SORN the car after an MOT failure. I have an MOT booked for tomorrow, so wish me luck!!!

Just rereading your post. You have refitted the water pump already, so maybe you will be able to replace the dummy aircon pump/drive without distubing your newly fitted water pump. Please excuse any unneeded information above!

Best wishes

David Stuart

Many thanks for the info David. There can never be too much!

I actually had the water pump replaced at a garage today as although I am pretty proficient at car mechanics, I don't have a car lift so access underneath was somewhat limited, even when jacked-up and supported by axle stands. As it turned out the pump was very stiff and the guys at my local trusted garage said it was very hard to remove due to limescale / mineral build-up jamming the removal. I don't know if this is a result of using tap water, a mix of coolant and tap water, or a mix of non-compatible coolants by a previous owner maybe. But they eventually managed to remove it after a struggle so a good decision to take it there after all. Not sure if the limescale/ mineral deposit will cause long term problems or not, but not sure what I can really do about it. It never seemed to cause any problems overheating so fingers crossed.

I'll try contacting the companies you suggest for a refurbished dummy aircon pump.

Oh, and mine's at a very similar mileage to yours!

Many thanks again for the advice and good luck for your MOT.

Hi Martin

I think you have been wise as the garage will be well practised. Supporting the engine weight on a jack, while the car is on stands, doesn't sound great safety-wise.

There was a lot of gunk and aluminium corrosion in my pump. I cleaned everything as best I could. I have a tiny weep from the rubber hose connection to the pump. The aluminium output tube, which the hose is jubillee clipped to, is quite badly pitted. I may have to do something about it but not sure what (ptfe tape, some kind of sealant or new wider jubille clip, perhaps).

The clanking noise came on quite quickly, over just a few hundred miles. Brands hatch said the bearing(s) were badly shot, when compared to the refurbed unit. The dog coupling was visibly worn, allowing for play and accelerated wear.

Hopefully, the replacement parts will last another 50K miles, although I'd be tempted to change the water pump sooner than that. Not being driven from the cambelt means there is no necessity to inspect it at regular intervals.