Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms If I were to buy a trad.............

what would you recommend?

A serious thought. I sold the Ferrari last year and I also sold the motorbike . I had decided that the Ferrari wasnt much use thanks to speed cameras and congestion, and that at 81 I was a risk to myself on a bike. Never learned throttle control - all vehicles in fron were there to be overtaken! Well not quite but you get the idea.

So as a toy which would be slow and encourage bimbling along I was wondering about a Trad. But I am past the age of "getting out and getting under" so I was wondering what sort of second hand Trad would offer the best chance of reliability and rust freedom. Are there galvanised chassis? I seem to remember something about a stainless bulkhead. And what engine - I have heard well of the Ford Duratec. 2l for a little bit of oompf.

Over to you. Convert me. And if you happen to have an absolute jewel for sale, let me know.

Well my choice if a trad would be a late Plus 4 with duratec engine and mazda gearbox. most likely a sport version.........but if I;m really honst I would also try a CX they are are a revelation in comfort compared to a trad. What ever you buy try to avoid low mileage garage queens, Morgans in my experience prove to be more reliable when used regularily.

No comment

neither

Buy something with a CX chassis and an auto box. Much easier to get in and out of than a trad, much easier to drive in traffic, and a much more comfortable ride.

It’s such a personal choice that it’s impossible to give a recommendation. I would suggest a long door car with galvanised chassis as an easy car to live with but my first Morgan was a 1981 4/4 with Ford Kent engine, no brake servo, no rack and pinion steering, no nothing really and it was brilliant, absolutely loved it and still miss it but it’s so far from anything you have probably driven that it may be too much of a shock. My 2004 4/4 was like a Bentley in comparison and loved that too. Only car I didn’t gel with was a GDI plus 4. Have driven a number of roadsters and the power steering and effortless power may be more to your liking. I haven’t driven a cx chassis car but could be tempted by a plus four auto.
My favourite compromise, all Morgans have their pros and cons, is a Plus 4 Duratec with the MX5 gearbox as it’s a lovely reliable engine, the gearbox is brilliant, galvanised chassis and easy up hood. That’s only my opinion though and completely understand why others prefer their cars.

howard deja vu


https://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/264187/first-morgan-which#Post264187

https://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/77998/so-which-model-should-i-chose#Post77998

https://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/292558/talk-to-me-about-aeros#Post292558

A 4/4 Sigma may be down a few horses on the +4 Duratec, but is lighter, revvier (is that a word?) and more fun to drive IMO.
No trad is easy to get in and out of. I'm 73 and can still manage it, but it gets more of a challenge every year and the CX cars definitely have the edge in that regard. But the original post was about trads, so a +8 should also be in the mix, especially for an ex Ferrari driver.

Not that I have a dealer within 150 miles but, from reading here, there are a lot of cars 'in stock' across the country so it would seem a good time to test-drive a selection to see what suits you?

K

He is just playing his favourite game of throwing down the firecracker and awaiting reactions - no way howard will buy a Morgan and that's why Mkiss and I didn't comment on a choice, he is way too fussy for a Morgan and he would be lowering his dinghy far too low at his yacht club arriving in one after his beloved Fezza's.

Besides we have endured decades of him slagging them off

His loss.

My way of thinking, never say, never until you try one........basically a lot is dependant upon how you are going to use it, if it's just for tootles to the pub and back basically any modern trad will do be it a 4/4 , Plus 4, Roadster or +8. But if you really want to use it and live in a built up area then for me a CX auto puts them all in the shade, fast, comfortable, economical.

The Aero's are yet another breed of Morgan with their stonking V8's, but even they aren't that much quicker than a CX, certainly a little more drama flows around them, but not much quicker. and the frequency of petrol fill ups will at least facilitate rest breaks..,great cars that pioneered the current generation of modern Morgans.

A lot is dependant upon how much money you want sitting in the car, that then starts to focus and whittle down choice.

Richard, I think you just commented... ? (-:

Matters not a jot to me whether Howard does or does not buy a Mog, I like the cut of his jib, (-: I find it more interesting to have an alternative line of thought presented from time to time, as opposed to everyone singing from the same hymn sheet...

I suspect Ivan Dutton of Shed Racing fame still impresses a few by appearing in a variety of old bone shakers at various Bugatti, Bentley and Ferrari events with the well heeled in numbers attending.. (-:

Gotta say also that I have had more attention and compliments paid to my old Mog at a number of locations when in company with a line up of Porsches in times past, but then Porsches are a lot more numerous than Ferraris.. or indeed Morgans... ? (-:

If you are serious Howard, as has been suggested, it does seem for the more mature, perhaps an auto CX may well be the best bet...?

I am not as mature as you though past my mid 70`s, and delighted to still be able to enjoy all the shake, rattle and rolling along in my old Trad Mog, even though I have access to more powerful and faster kit, that in no way can compete in providing the great pleasure that my lovely somewhat patinated old Mog provides for me, and others who either just seem to feel compelled to smile or wave as I rumble along... What`s more to want..? Good old Mog..(-:

I was aware George but you will note I did not pick a model for him as requested, and by the way several appear not to have read the OP title of "Which Trad"

I think the Aero and CX chassis cars are great but hardly a Trad are they ?

P.S. Different is good I agree but constant whinging and rubbishing the brand does nothing for the Forum or Brand and other than that he is not different in a good way he is just a snob and we are surrounded by them in Dartmouth with their pink shorts and Mirror dighies already so not for me thanks..

Howard you have hovered on the forum for years, are you really going to put your money..... (not meant rude)

So moving to Morgan.
If you are going for a Trad I will let others with more experience comment. However if the reason is discomfort then I would be looking at a more modern platform. Respecting the fact that Trads have many excellent suspension upgrades. You might find them a little wearing on journeys based on my experience. They are a different and lovable experience.

A CX would give you the benefit of the style and experience of how society reacts to you as you move about in it but with more comfort, more modern driving experience etc. Given the lightweight even a CX PlusFour will keep you interest in forward progress.

To create a "Ferrari" experience in your life? Well if you want I do have Shiny available for purchase. An Aero Coupe, with sidepipes, will create an experience that even most Ferraris cannot achieve. We pulled up at the doorstep of the Hotel de Paris in Monaco in 2017. The same week the Ferrari F12TdF was released. The customers F12TdF was parked on the steps. Until the Coupe arrived. The hotel moved it to the car park every night and bought back every morning. The receptionist actually thanked us and said it was the most photographed car they had ever had. They probably say that to everyone?

It is good for long distance, the ride is pretty good. It's not impossible to get in and out of however the hard top does require a bit more flex compared to a soft top model. The Tillets are actually really comfy. Well that's the end of the sale pitch

In all seriousness I will watch the thread with great interest, if someone as traditionally sceptical as you buys one and it works thats a great thing. My money is on a CX Plus Four Auto.

It takes one to know one !

We are all entitled to a view but I am far too polite to post my thoughts about you 😉

Thread drift from yet another old sailor.

'Tis the season as you are far from alone. Since last year, I have been watching a veritable flood of new moggers join the community, more than I have ever seen. The plummet in world classic car prices, most significantly in the UK has to be driving it. Personally, I am not in a position where cost is the first factor in my hobby car purchases. It is no secret that have spent more on my mogs than ANY model or year would have cost me new. But the trad owning community has always been money conscious, like Peter Morgan. There is no wealth limit (high or low) necessary to enjoying a trad.

So it gives me great joy now to see those who have yearned for these cars all their lives to finally be able to afford one. Trads are also super inexpensive to properly care for yourself and well-within the skills of a hobbyist with a garage. Only takes a bit of hand-holding at first, which is fun and friendship building too. Yes of course, since 2000 the Works moved to focus on a different market and demographic than the one it courted for a century. These models are not susceptible to amateur interaction, have no technological similarity. They are costly to acquire and unavoidably far more expensive to keep. Different hobby.

I would target something between 1987 to 1996 (beginning of the Superform bubbling plague) The plague ended by by then the engine management became much harder. This list looks like you should be spending under 10k and residuals keep going down.

On the other hand, if you are merely tyre kicking to have company..you are very welcome!

L.

1984 Plus 8
1990 Plus 8
2002 Plus 8 (MMC special)
Royal Enfield 350

I think Howard and gomog are well suited. Can I suggest you both peruse this further, preferably by private message or on another forum. I hear 'The Morgan Experience' is good.

Don’t buy one…… you won’t be happy….!!!😃
But……. If you do…. Buy a 4/4, it’s all the Morgan anyone needs…….. every thing after that is willy waving…..🤷🏼‍♂️👍🏻😎

🇬🇧🇬🇧

Life is a short trip, it’s hard to grow old without a cause 😊 if you’re fortunate enough to still enjoy driving at 81 you should buy whatever you want quickly.
I’ll sell you mine if you want?

Howard,

Try a few first, they can vary considerably from car to car. Hopefully you find what you are looking for. When you go for a test drive pick the worst roads surfaces possible to get a feel for the ride.

Hire one of each and then decide what you like. Sounds like a great way to spend 3 days. They might even give you the additional day rate for the second two days.

https://bespokes.co.uk/marques/morgan-hire/

Howard, Having covered upwards of 80k miles behind the wheel of a 1.8 L Duratec 4/4 I can highly recommend it for reliability and ample fun for ANY age of the adventurous driver. Go for it and have some more enjoyment. (No point waiting for your mobility scooter)...

Howard after 17 years on this forum you still can't make your mind up ?

Took me five years, and a few forums to make up my mind, the forums were the fledgling MSCC DG which seemed to become too much of a hot potato for the club at the outset..? Morgans at Autox, NBC, and finally on to, and very grateful to find TM....While I have not the slightest intention of replacing my +8, I still look at 4/4`s with the sort of eye reserved for a pretty lady...Why not would seem to be the question.. ? (-:

I do love a good squirt in Joseph and Natalies 2009 4/4 Sport - you do need to try one sometime and of course I got Henrietta for 16k as she had 15,500mls on the clock from Jeremy so a known daily for him which has done it a lot of good.

She had a wings off respray before we got her and have put 3,000mls on her in the year and no signs of wear anywhere or yomping oil and the gear change is slick as can be.

In 1970 I was on Wolfe Island in Canada on my first contract had already me Heather but fell instantly in Love with the Plus 8 advert in the back of the Autocar magazine, so that was my journey.
It took many years including marriage and three children before it was viable for me as Heather was a proper full time Mum to them, and boy has that paid off

I had never driven a Plus 8 but I bought it off Richard and Helen Thorne - booked the train to Reading and Helen picked me up in a Fiat which she ragged competently all the way to the garage where we completed the paperwork and I headed for South Devon.

My first 4/4 Sport I was passing Ricard and Henrys dealership in Bristol and he had just pu the car in the showroom having driven it down from the factory on the release week so I bought it there and then for cash, Henry is such a dyed in the wool Morgan man I really like him, so I traded my Fiesta top of the range thing in, which Elles had off him and still has.

Quick call to Heather so she said yes and a week later I trained up to Brizzle to pick her up.


34 years of Plus eighting has brought me untold pleasure and met some lovely solid people on and off TM that are lifetime friends

8 years of 4/4 Sporting mingled in there too bring ing untold fun and chuckability.

I am a lucky boy to have an understanding wife, she is not keen on them and her POLO GTI is 150mph and 6 Secs to 60 so she's not impressed and likes her comforts driving swiftly with the roof back and Aircon on max .


howard and I difer in every imaginable way QED

It took me five years too. From 2003 to 2008 with a lot of research. I knew how much fun a classic Mini is, with no real power but incredible handling. That's the essence of 4/4 ownership. I knew what is was like behind a V8 Rover engine after 22 years in an MGV8. My logic was to go for a Plus 8, without really understanding how complex that decision would be, and only a long time after, did I realise this. And bought my Roadster anyway, even knowing about low ground clearance of the sump.

There are a couple of simple factors amongst all the detail. These are that the Roadsters have better weight distribution than the Plus 8. Simple physics. The Plus 8 goes on torque, the Roadster on revs. Second factor is that the Plus 4 engine in a 4/4 body gives increased power with agile handling. The Duratec is easier to live with than the GDI. The Duratec is a lot more tunable.

If you value a treated ash frame, a stainless bulkhead and galvanised chassis, then it has to be a long door, 1997 is the odd ball year when you could get any of the changes in one car, from mid year.

After that it depends on personal choice of colour. interior trim, dashboard style, and wheels. If you chose no spare wheel and no opening in the rear panel, then any issues with fuel tank and pump, or leaf springs becomes much more difficult to access. MMC should have used a removable cover on the rear panel but it was easier in build not to.

One morning in around 1998, I went to a meeting at what was then called the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency in Malvern. They were trying to sell us their battlefield simulation software as a basis for developing a business competition/wargaming simulator.

After an interesting but essentially fruitless discussion I found myself at a loose end for the afternoon and so rather than head back to the office I decided to have a look at the Morgan factory. No guided tours in those days, they just let me wander round on my own so long as I kept to the safe side of the lines.

Half an hour later I'd fallen hook, line and sinker. Took me a couple of years to save up the necessary before I bought my 4/4 from Bill Wykeham on another afternoon when I'd skived off from the office early again.

Richard
Mirror Dinghes. Haven't heard of them for 50 years!

Still a few around Dave with Enterprise and Wayfarers - the old navy demograph most likely as a lot retire down here.

Haven't seen this in the Dart yet..




A quiet afternoon stroll along the canal took a delightfully cheeky turn this week when a highly unusual vessel decided to drop anchor and show off its wares.

The bright pink "Ann Summers Canal Boutique" has been making considerable waves on the towpath. Forget stopping for a traditional cream tea; the local ladies' walking group was far more interested in inspecting this floating shop's rather colourful tackle.

​Swapping their usual discussions about Victoria sponges for spirited debates on horsepower and battery life, the pensioners happily got hands-on with the vibrant, waterproof merchandise.

​"I've been looking for a sturdy little runabout to get my motor running" remarked one enthusiastic shopper, giving a hefty purple contraption a very thorough weigh-up. "I must say, this one looks like it could navigate a tight lock with absolutely no trouble at all!"

​It appears the pop-up boutique is doing a roaring trade keeping the locals thoroughly entertained. After all, whether you're navigating the broads or just looking for a bit of a buzz in the galley, there's nothing quite like a reliable piece of equipment to really float your boat.

You are wrong this time Rich. Got to the change of life as a lady might put it. Sold the Fezza, sold the motorbike and also the boat. The Fezza went out of frustration - silly speed limits clogged roads and low mileage both as a result of the above and also because you can reckon on £2 per mile depn for every mile driven. The bike went after I hit a tree with an embarassing beginners error after 50 years of riding - showed me that I was past it. The boat went because it leaked like a seive, not a good thing in a boat. A few months without the three has left me wondering what life is for so I am negotiating on another but smaller boat and I thought that maybe a toy car that couldnt go fast would be an idea. The choice is Morgan or Mazda both of which regularly appear at my yacht club. The car is a maybe, the boat a definite. Could end up just using my wife's Cooper S but a sun roof isnt the same as a convertible.

Must admit that I had forgotten asking the same question back in 2015 and 2012, but then at my age, yesterday is a long time ago.

P.S. You are a rude man! Snob indeed In all the years I have posted on here, thats the first time I have read a personal and obnoxious comment about anyone.

Thanks John, but I have tried a CX and as I reported here I was most impressed by it. A serious sports car designed to be driven fast so not what I am thinking of now. I want something that will give me fresh air, will be slow fun to drive and wont have me getting out and under to maintain. Thats why the MX5 is on the list. Reliable, easy main dealer service, good hood, boot, nice engine and gearbox.

Ha ha

In one of my early jobs many decades ago one of our young sales ladies was a rep for Ann Summers.
SO many stories but they are not being put into print!
Such a laugh on so many fronts.

I'd have thought that an MX5 is a better car in every respect than a Morgan...... isn't the most popular sports car in the world or something like that.....????🤷🏻‍♂️
BUT.............. the MX5 is characterless and bland (imho), boring, boring, boring....... whereas a Morgan....there's nothing like it.....🤷🏻‍♂️......
A mate of mine bought an amazingly high specced MX5 as his retirement present sports car....... it lasted about a month......
I'm not saying a Morgan is good.....it's catastrophically flawed in almost every respect...... but..... they are oddly addictive....😂

🇬🇧🇬🇧

Sums up my feelings exactly. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that an MX5 is objectively a better car, but so what?

. Well Howard as you are infrequent on here you have missed several of my home truths on here - apologies for any offence caused.

MX5 I believe will be the perfect fast enough, reliable good handling car for you.

Unless you want to have to tinker, the MX5 is as much fun as you really need for short journeys. Also they come with a metal folding hard top version...far more practical than the hood version, and more usuabe in winter.

The MX5 got where it is by being a great little fun car to drive. It is what the British should have built. I've had one MX5 and two Plus 8s so I know the difference. I've settled for a DB7 as it is a lot easier to get in and out of and everyone is pleasant to it when out and about.

I have a friend on his third (I think) MX5. He tried the FIAT version but wasn't happy with how it felt, athough to my eyes, the FIAT is way better looking.

They were out one day, with a relative, who has an old Morgan, not sure now old and which model but pre-long door. Friends wife complained that whenever they parked up, a crowd would gather around the Morgan asking questions and ignore their MX5. She couldn't understand why, when the Morgan is an uncomfortable relic. Ignorance is bliss.

The FIAT Mx5 might be an option for Howard though.

Mine is a great little car, although now worth only a fraction of when I bought it new in 2016 (15K miles ago, as it shares duties with my Roadster). Life of vehicle fuel consumption is just under 40mpg with a mix of driving styles. https://www.tm-img.com/image/onsGS

I had a mk3 2.0 litre from new for 8 years, had it supercharged after a couple of years by BBR in Northants - it behaved perfectly for 75k miles over that time and was a great drive both before and after the upgrade. I then changed to the latest model in 2017, which was also excellent but I changed it a couple of years later for my current Plus4 as I'd always fancied a Morgan and the opportunity arose... love the Morgan but never a bad word to say on the MX5, it was so easy to use everyday, cheap to maintain and totally reliable.

It strikes me Howard that you are overestimating a CX. You say you are looking for a slower car than this, surely there are some excellent and proven methods of reducing power and or acceleration if you have scared yourself once too often in the Fezza. The easiest would be a suitable block of wood under the accelerator I would have thought, you would then have the perfect car with all the charisma that a Morgan brings. There, easy wasn't it?

Addictive - yes absolutely👍

Catastrophically flawed - much prefer “a masterclass in charisma” 🎓

Must go - need to grease a kingpin 🤪

I've owned two of the Abarth (Fiat) versions and I'd thoroughly recommend them.

A rarer car that the MX5. A bit faster, better sounding and the scarcity makes them more interesting IMHO.

Charismatic................ definitely....... that is one way to describe them...!😆
It looks like all the MX5 and Abarth owners have seen the light and bought Morgans.....

QED

Buy a Morgan.......... you know it makes sense........😂

🇬🇧🇬🇧

Funnily enough my friend, before his MX5 chapter had a Smart Roadster, and for me, that was a much nicer car than the MX5. Although buld quality was a bit iffy. But it had charisma in spades. It even leaked through the hood.

I owned an Abarth from new for eight years, sold it this year. It was convertible and absolutely brilliant.
Before that I had a smart roadster for a few years, bought on a whim from a friend who was selling. I used it to go to London once a week. It was very entertaining and endearing but the gearbox was sooo slow. Excellent fun though and great handling. The leaking problem was worse than the mog though as the carpets were backed with two inch thick foam and sealed. Impossible to dry it out properly..

Howard, perhaps best not to hang around before making a decision, given it seems there are all sorts of suggestions relative to putting over 70`s off the road....!
If Tesla made a sports car, then given the performance of my model three and the pure convenience factor of the thing, as I have typed many times it far better suits the old man I have become than either my +8 or 991..... though the Morgan is the happy car...smiles and waves a plenty, just makes the world feel to be a better place when driving it... (-:

There is a big problem with Tesla deliveries atm, I am lead to believe?

Picked that up on a YT short, no facts provided as to the issue. Suggestions of either software or DVLA.... I doubt software, as in the three years I have owned my Tesla I am informed of any software updates which I then receive, via my home internet connection, usually every 4-6 weeks....Thus it would be a real surprise that any Tesla centre could not handle any alterations required on site, unless it might be related to pay/mile recording or connecting to the DVLA or and such authority for any such purposes..?

I guess that's what happens when you use washing machine technology to build a car.

Interesting that you should say so. We had a Smart roadster for 16 years and it was great albeit with a badly flawed gear box. My wife loved it and it only got sold because we began to be nervous about reliability. That said the only issues we had were a crank position sensor ( a bitch to get at) and a broken door lock cable.. Lovely thing replaced by a Cooper S which both of us have mixed views about but which does at least take the dog.

The appeal of the MX5 is reliability and ease of service at sensible prices at the main dealer. But it is tempting to thrash.with a lovely gearbox and handling. The appeal of the Trad is that people talk of enjoying driving down a country lane at sensible speeds because it wont do much more . Its time that I behaved like the old man that I am and not the boy racer that I once was. The CX is altogether too competent and fast and even Lotus like plus it has all that horrible BMW gear lever, switches etc.

We shall see. Got to buy a boat first and then see what is left over for a car.

Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad Trad....................😂

What's the worst that could happen...??

🇬🇧🇬🇧

I wonder as to that which we ALL seem to have accepted, as being just part of the price for convenience ... ?

It is all just part of the evolutionary process, perhaps best get used to it...? (-:

Don't think a Morgan is a slouch, my 2013 +4 hits 60mph at a shade under 7 seconds in 2nd gear 90 in 3rd and sticks to the road like s@@@ to a blanket.

I was idly watching YouTube videos one night and came across a review of a Pilot Boat/ coastal cruiser thing that only cost around £25k and had live aboard capability. Cheaper than a car. Just the thing for parking up at Gloucester and going for jaunts around the coast, I thought. Maybe a summer cruise up to the Western Isles.

Then I saw the range - 500 miles or so. And the size of the fuel tank - 700 litres at £1.80 or thereabouts per litre. Oops.

Howard one word of warning only - I very nearly went for the Fiat version as I preferred the looks but if you are anywhere near 6’ and of normal proportions you will find the MX5 very cramped mind you with a 50” chest the Plus 8 is the perfect option for me.

Lowebird on here prewarned me as he had the same problem being a full sized bloke.

On the. MX5/Trad discussion:-
It depends on whether you would prefer a bespoke, coach built, aluminium panelled head turner, or a mildly entertaining rust bucket.
An easy choice IMO.

Rich, have you put on weight ? You were 48” in a postsome weeks back !! Stay healthy, feisty and frosty . Best from me, MM
PS they don’t tell you that as you get into your 70’s that things also shrink which in my case is a serious issue !

Quote "The appeal of the Trad is that people talk of enjoying driving down a country lane at sensible speeds because it wont do much more".

That may be way the Sunday Lunchers talk Howard.

BUT, 18 years experiencing a Roadster says otherwise. Yes there are lots of fancy cars with bragging rights. Most are twice or three times as heavy as a Trad. So when a Plus4 Trad has, say 165bhp, any fancy car will need 330bhp to be the equivalent, and often more. Even a Polo is around 1400kg, against the sub 900kg of a Trad.

And then these lardy cars are also loaded up with driver aids to keep them on the road. and most drivers are not capable of switching off the aids, and staying alive. Driver aids slow these cars down, I've seen this so often in the Highlands and on the Fosse Way. Its always the M3/4/5 brigade who set off like a stabbed rat, when they see a Morgan in the mirror, and I just stay at a respectable distance, but they don't leave me behind. Trads corner flat. Trads are well balanced. They don't squirm. And public roads are not race tracks. When a Roadster can do the dash to 60 in under 5secs, even a fancy 3.5sec dash will not show on the road because a second and a bit in five seconds is irrelevant.

The beauty of a Trad is that very fact that people with fancy cars, and no Morgan experience, think that Morgans can't deliver, and that's what makes them fun.

Luddite, you mentioned pay for mile recording. I read somewhere the cheeky bastard government wanted it to include miles done abroad - unbelievable if they collect the cash !!
I drove just shy of 1500 kilometers yesterday . It was dear enough with crazy French tolls every few miles . French and Italian petrol prices at 2 euros (+in some cases) . Thank god for Slovenia at €1.519.
Most of our holidays involve driving or fly drives and I’m going to fight to the death to keep driving until I know I have to hand the wheel to my younger wife and accept the speed she likes to travel and longer travel times. I need somehow to feel happy with that but 50 can be a tad frustrating .
MM

Dave, I was playing tail end Charlie in the old Mog in the company of a group of Porsche pals while enjoying the French countryside in the few days before the 24hrs at LM. Your post reminded me that the the last in line Porsche was a 930 turbo, and coincedentally we became split from the group by a set of traffic lights in a village, and once out on the open road he thought to exercise his Turbo, At the lunch stop he declaired being somewhat shocked that the old Mog could keep up...... I thought it would have been sheer bad manners to overtake him..... OK, OK so he was not the best driver in the world... (-:

Yes. Even in a small sailing yacht of the sort I buy, the MPG when motoring at a giddy 5kn is typically about 12 in statute miles. For the big motor cruisers ( aka Tart Traps) you might get as high as 2mpg and as low as 2 gpm!

But lets be fair. Just like Morgans, these are toys and the running costs are lower than those of a 19 year old leggy blond, I am told!

Sorry Dave but there is a bit of self deception there! I will accept that on a smooth racing track, Morgan performance is respectable if not good. But point one of the non ally generation down a potholed UK B road with the body flexing and the wheel writhing in your hands and you wont keep up with an equally well driven modern car. Now the CX is a different issue, at least at under 80mph.

I have driven a variety of Trads and they are not cars that I would trty to thrash in the way that I used to with my Lotus. They are cars for a bimble in the sunshine.. All IMO of course

You can have lessons for that kind of stuff.

My experience of most modern cars is that they are great at going fast in a straight line, but useless at corners. Most journeys in my Mog or MG, they are leaving me for dead on the straights, but holding me up on the corners. Not sure if it is car design or driver ability, but very commonplace.

Howard as TBM suggested it is possible to proceed quite rapidly in an older machine, just that there tends to be a tad more involvement required, which is one of the reasons I gave up on 911`s and ended up buying into the idea of Morgan ownership.

I feel most fortunate to be able to enjoy interesting local (ish) roads in a rather high spec 2012 991.1 C4S as well as my mid 80`s Trad Morgan.

My Morgan is almost completely standard, other than having the vast benefit to handling that is the modification from lever arm shockers on the rear, converted to Koni tubular adjustable shockers, with matching Koni`s on the front....I have to admit to never having thought to try to adjust the shockers to improve on the ride quality..... (-: I think the engine may have at one time had 150 HP on a good day, and the LR gearbox was designed for a mud plugger as opposed to a sports car.... But as a whole package, it works wonderfully well for me, and I have enjoyed reasonable progress in it on rather poorly surfaced roads on numerous occasions... (-:

I feel most fortunate indeed to be able to choose between the 991 and the old Mog on any day I might feel the desire to head out for a drive. As for the engineering advances involved in the 991...where to start..?

While I suspect the 991 is more a GT in the sense of a grand tourer, than an out and out sports car, it does have circa 400HP available and a plethora of onboard digital decision making gizmology to aid keeping all those horses between the hedges. Also despite it`s advanced and digitally controlled suspension system, I have to admit that it does not seem to absorb the shocks and generally rough road surfaces in any way which might encourage the occupants to imagine they were being transported in luxury, compared to the old Mog..

While there is no doubt relative to the technical superiority of the 991 over the old Mog, the reality is that the Morgan is the favoured vehicle of the two over the somewhat testing roads I am so fortunate to be able to enjoy driving in my part of the world..

I don`t doubt that that if push came to shove that the 991 would be the quicker of the two over any interesting section of tarmac regardless of surface imperfections, but I suspect not by much in any meaningful measure, though I suspect the 991 driver would have had less physical and mental involvement in the process overall..?

I guess much depends upon ones priorities, and as we age it seems comfort and convenience built into vehicles may become more of a priority over increased horsepower and a roaring exhaust, but how far one might care to take that it an entirely personal decision..? I cant imagine choosing a Tesla to enjoy that which either my Morgan or 991 provide when in the frame of mind to choose between them to head out for a drive, other than were I in the mood to amble along enjoying the scenery with minimal involvement in the process of controlling the vehicle... one pedal operation works wonderfully if your habit is to read the road well enough..?

Again I feel most fortunate in mt 78th year to be able not only to access and egress my old style Trad but to be ale to enjoy driving it when ever in the frame of mind to do so, though the advantages of the extra door width on later models might ease that process somewhat.. (-: As for additional comfort and bling, I can well understand the appeal of that too while we age, and I think it is great that the MMC seem to have catered rather well for that too while retaining much of the obvious lineage of the quirky idiosyncratic vehicles that us happy few are drawn to ....? (-:

As ever, each to their own..

The beauty of the Morgan world is that it caters for a wide variety of approaches to Motoring.

Some of us regard ragging a light car with modest power as the ultimate. Others of us (myself now included) have opted for a more relaxed style with a bit more power.

4 wheeled Morgans range from around 30bhp to in excess of 300bhp. Suspension, chassis and braking has evolved since the mid 1930's and is now quite modern.

Somewhere in that wide range of cars is something to suit anyone who is serious about joining in.

18 years of experience tells me otherwise Howard, it's about finding and exploring limits. But you've already decided, and that's fine.

I built mine to be a B-road sprinter. High power-to-weight ratio, low gearing, it can be a great laugh on the twisty bits. But equally well one can bang it in fifth and bumble along at 50 without a care in the world, very relaxed. It won't demolish autobahns at a steady 100mph but that's ok, I don't do that anyway.

This afternoon I was returning from Gaydon in the afternoon sunshine, very laid back and relaxed, when I was overtaken by a white Tesla who seemed to think he had a point to prove. Jolly good for him, I thought. There do after all have to be some compensations for owning a Tesla.

And that's pretty much how I feel about all non-Morgans. They can be faster, handle better, be more reliable, and be more easy to drive than one of our cars. But they aren't Morgans. And when you pull up with your pals outside Gaydon you can't see people smiling and hear kids shouting "Wow look at those, Mum!" like you do when you're in a Morgan.

The experience of actually driving anywhere can be a pain these days pretty much whatever car you're in. But the experience of owning a Morgan and having Morgan-owning pals to natter to over coffee and bacon rolls is as good as it's always been, and is pretty bloody special if you ask me.

I think Morgans like all other car brands has it 's mix of driver's, their very different driving styles and the various uses to which they put their car. I thought from the outset, that this was just a 'noise' posting.of no real substance.........so I'm not at all surprised by the conclusion/outcome..

Ah Tim, that puts me in mind of a white Tesla who passed us last summer at perhaps twice our speed: we were extremely amused to find him having his collar felt by the gendarmes at the next village. C'est la vie.

What am I missing here?

As a commited/commitable Aero person I think there is a great place for strict trads and enhanced trads as an experience.

My first introduction to Morgan (driving) was an Aero S1 and I laughed out loud that something that Biggles had used to dent a lamppost went like a stabbed rat, including bends. Track car no. Lazy V8 <4000rpm> Wooohooo.

Later I had a go in PeterJ's V6 trad. I will admit it was a handful and rather put me off. The front and back appeared to be in different timezones. It certainly had some go but I was uncomfortable using the performance on public roads as it felt a bit unfettered.

Since then I have had a go in some sorted Trads and they are pretty handy little beasts. Agreed they needed suspension upgrades to make them good fun. They were not a Lotus Exige or Alpine but they were pretty good and on the speed/width of public roads they were fun. If I think how any other cars from that age feel it's not disturbing. Some of the tuned and upgraded models can surprise modern cars.

Not a 911.2.A.4.x but then where I now live all that would bring is more frustration as I sit behind a 2024 Range Rover Spurt driven by a tourist on the Devon roads. Stopping as every car comes towards them and almost stopping at every pot hole, boy have we got a few of them. Even in my Aero I can drive around them without chewing hedges and inbound tractors.

A strict trad is a different driving experience that does not goad you to drive fast and then becoming frustrated. A tweaked Trad means you can have fun at more socially acceptable speeds.

Me, I am hooligan and love a V8 with side pipes that goes like a total meanie when there is legal room. Thats the issue, legal room. In the S2 on a sunny day in Devon I can select 3-4th and roll along with a big smile and people love the car. I have spent three years trying to work out what to replace it with. Can't find anything. Lotus Exige down here would be a waste as the roads would mean I could never push it. A 911 was on the list but left early as they are fat these days. A good 930 or early model is just daft money.

It is a genuine challenge to find a car that can bring a smile and let you engage modern roads without hitting the Monopoly "go directly to jail" as a whole experience. My daily is an AMG E63 estate so it's not like I don't know what 700bhp feels like?

Alistair,

May suggest for those narrow country lanes either a Caterham Severn 620R or an Ariel Atom, small naroow agile cars. which create a great sensation of speed with your backside just skimming the road, and what you can't get around, you just pass under. The ever present exposed feeling of impending death, does heigthen the driving exerience no end.. I've been priveldged to be a passenger in a R500 being thrashed in very expert hands and it surpasses anything you might get from say a claasic Porsche 930..........just the sensation and raw exposure to the elements at speeds, is unlike anthing I've experienced in any other car, often requiring a change of trousers, a very raw and intense experience at speed down unpredictable country lanes. Not very practical, great to collecting bugs in the face and the occassional A to B in a hurry car.............not much fun on motorways.


Mind you I might need to start to save my pennies for the 1600 bhp BYD Denza Z spyder...............

I'd say you've already found your automotive nirvana.

The Caterham yes, but the Atom isn't particularly narrow.

Far comment, its as wide as the wifes Mercedes Coupe.........so be a bit snugger than the Caterham in any overtaking space/gap but much more fun
.

I looked at Caterhams, and they were on my list. The strangest thing though, which shows how different we all are, is that when I went to buy a new Elise, pockets bulging with intent, that test drive, and I was alone, ruled it out completely. I just didn't get what the fuss was about. Just like Howard with Trads. I could not live with an Elise, and it was one if the fancy ones, but not a chance.