Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Plus Four, Supersport & Plus Six (CX & CXV Generation Vehicles) So what do I really think some 7 months on...

That's interesting, as I'd been out a few times in the car and it didn't seem too bad for sqeaks and rattles with the roof open and closed. I didn't know they had a repuration for that, learn something new every day.......I never liked the original targa, from the soft window version onwards until they introduce the sliding roof in the 993 and onwards. Early Targa roof line just looked ugly, didn't flow like the coupe or the cabriolet come to that.

In fairness, I alway preferred the cabriolets, never really been into the coupes even with a sunroof............and the later targas seem to offer a decent compromise..Sometimes, I do wonder about the quality of Porsche and it's engineering, Sues got a Mercedes Coupe with a massive sliding glass roof, that slides over the top of the roof and not a bother with queaks or rattles, whatsoever, I know Mercedes has it problems but some of the Porsche engineering like the eg the head bolts on the 964, just make you wonder from time to time, is the reputation that good these days, or just better than it's rivals.eg Ferrari.. A firend had a 964 RS great driving car compared to my 930, but the engine problems spoilt the car, so much so he dropped Porshe and jumped into a bigger barrel of mire in vintage Ferrari's, now he dumped them for Bentleys, he just keeps finding new ways of spending his money on maintenance and upkeep..

Thank you both John and Simon for your views on aircooled Porsches, very interesting, but along with Ferrari, not a make I have ever seriously considered for various reasons.

With the way that current cars are taxed and with such high depreciation, I am seriously wondering if it is worth considering running a 40 + year old car. There are quite a lot of very usable cars around now, some still at comparatively low prices, Scimitars for example and maybe with a little restmodding, they can be made quite civilised and cheap to run. Just thinking out loud obviously.

I tend to find you are either a Porsche or a Ferrari man, without question earlier Porsches had a better reliability reputation and more suitable for day to day use than their period comparable Ferrari, Since 2017 Ferrari has really improved it's quality control and the modern Ferrari's take some beating, but they generally are at a higher price point than the comparable Porsche.

For day to day practicality I'd take a Porsche, for special occassions then it has to be a Ferrari. I've never owned a Ferrari but have enough friends that have had them and they are a more heightened driving experience. Having said that a friend had a Testarossa. it was left in the wake on the motorway of a humble Mercedes CLK430 V8 , slightly embarissing. A case of all show and no real go, compared to more modern cars, same could be said of the Porsche 930, fast in it's day, but now easily outpaced by more humble modern cars.

I worked for a company in the very early 70's where we all ran Porsches.
We had several 911s, a 914, and a bit later a 924 and a 928.
I don't think I could call any of them reliable. We were constantly at AFN in Isleworth as they were the supplier and the only place could look after them. Most people didn't know what they were then.
Constant maintenance and also the problems of instant reversal of direction when slowing for roundabouts or chickening out at a sharp corner.
I won't mention the costs , especially the costs of the 928 tyres! Or the rust.
I look back on them fondly but without any rose tint in the glasses.
Nick

I did put the Porsche reliability into context of similar period Ferrari maintenance. It's amazing how people's experience differ. Mind you changing ends on a Porsche is not a maintenence issue, more a right foot and chicken moment issue. The only cars in the 70's and 80's I would really consider relatively reliable and inexpensive to maintain were the Fords and Vauxhall's especially company cars versions like the Cavelier and Cortina variety. And compared with any of the BL products, of that time. everything is relative.

Simon re the imagined market evaluation of a 993 C2S all be it with 10k miles on the clock.... The phrase..Nuts or what, immediately comes to mind..?

As I suspect I have typed previously on TM.

The UK launch of the 993 took place at Cameron house on Loch Lomond, which I attended in my then 1982 circa 100k mile 911 SC, as ever with Porsche philosophy at the time each new iteration on the 911 theme required to produce both more horse power and improved fuel economy over the model it superseded.

I found the 993 to have become perhaps a tad too modern creating a more comfortable cabin and requiring less concentration to drive at the sort of speeds wherein my old SC, one felt fully engaged.... and given I drove the 993 over some of my favoured roads on the day, I was pretty sure that my ultimate assessment was reasonably realistic....

I suspect an SC in the condition mine was when I sold it in the late 90`s, if available today with circa 100k miles on it, the market value might be at a minimum £45k..... My Morgan despite all the skill, care and attention to detail which Kevin put into rebuilding it to match his idea of a perfect Morgan at the time, today might have a market value of less than half that of the imagined Porsche, even though my +8 has currently less than half the mileage of the Porsche... No point in arguing with the market is there...?

When I sold my SC in the late 90`s for as best I can remember £11k, and my next fun car with a break of perhaps 5 years or so, was in fact the Morgan I still own, which I bought in early 2002as as Kevin`s nut and bolt rebuild of a circa 8k mile mid 80`s Mog Kevin described as a "barn find" when he purchased it, for which I paid £20k with circa 8k miles on the clock Kevin having owned it only for a short time and put very few miles on it..

I suspect the 993 C2S I drove at the launch would be lucky to have had 10 miles on the clock, as it with others were delivered to the hotel by transporter. The idea of even a new 993 were it available today with zero miles on the clock being worth that which the market might value a 10k mile example today.... ? I can only reiterate Nuts or what..?

I suspect one would require to be very wealthy and also a die hard Porsche enthusiast. to buy into any such high value air cooled Porsche, and actually add to the recorded mileage by driving it...?

Not entirely sure about the way my thought process and priorities have altered over the years, when at the time I had given up on a few decades of Porsche air cooled ownership, after spending a day in the company of the new 993, I thought even to begin to feel really engaged driving 993 to the extent required in my old SC, other than the increased low down torque, I would require to be driving at speeds perhaps 30 mph or more over the same type of roads than I would enjoy in my SC, and that would definitely take one into licence risking territory... if I apply the technological "advance" from the 993 to that of my 991.1 C4S.... Yeah to feel engaged in the drive takes in the 991 takes on a whole new meaning... ! No wonder track day driving became so popular for the average sports car enthusiast.... Not that I do track days any more... I have accrued way too much mechanical sympathy over the years, along with the idea of the cost of paying someone else to replace an engine or gearbox... tips the balance towards behaving a tad more akin to the expectations of the pensioner I have become. (-:

Truth be told in reasonable weather I prefer driving my old +8 considerably more so than my I might enjoy driving my C4S, and that in the Mog one feels as if driving at 100mph, when one is only doing 50mph, whereas in the C4S that is completely reversed, and that is indeed licence shredding territory.... There a few other advantages to my old Trad +8 over the 991 thus in general the returns on the "investment" in my Morgan will I suspect ever far exceed any expectation I have in any measure of returns in the Porsche... (-:

I agree. Although I have had some very reliable Volvos.

My 992GT3 is very expensive to run, twice the cost of my 981GT4

I wasn't in the, enviable, position to drive a 993 from new but I enjoyed reading your anecdote about the launch. People who know far more than I have relayed the opinion that the 993 was the last 911 which was designed by engineers, with little to no input from the accountants! Whether this is true or not, I cannot say but I do know that I've spent many hours behind the wheel of 993s, that are now thirty+ years old, and they are both rattle/squeak free and feel solid. I've only owned one late SC (89) and it was similar - very well built and felt engineered, rather than built by committee. The 996 I remember less kindly, whilst the 997 was a more positive step forward again.

I was interested to read your further musings, as to whether you'd still feel the same about the 993, especially after the ownership of your 991, were you to revisit it. Personally, the 993 strikes the perfect balance of classic and modern. Driving one is a sense of occasion, without feeling like a chore. There is more than enough power for the car to feel dynamic and lithe but it remains analogue in the power delivery, without systems needing to intervene to either put the power down or keep the car on the road / driver safe!

As for a very low mileage C2S hitting £240,00+fees and not selling, I'd concur... crazy!

It must be such a worry - back on thread buy a CX cheap as chips and way more fun as it's a MORGAN..

John's points after 7 months of ownership were very interesting but I would join a Porker Forum if I had any interest in the marque at all