Talk Morgan Forums Thread Like Summary - Fade Away And Radiate

Bonus point if anyone knows the group!

Anyway, the P6 is in for it’s annual service - a new rad fitted last year - just had a phone call and we are back again with another leaker.

Thought they would have solved the issue by now.

Apparently, warranty has ended but if it’s been replaced then it’s covered for another replacement, but told this is also coming to an end soon.

Problem is dealers are waiting for replacement rads from MMC so it’s off the road for now.

My Plus Four is a 2023 car, now on 26k miles. No coolant issues at all. I think a cupfull of top up at most. Only one drip and that was from a hose joint and a quarter/half turn on the jubilee clip solved that. It prompted a check of as many clips as possible and all ok.The expansion tank cap is original and 15psi rated. There is some condensation in the clear overflow pipe that vents the expansion tank.
It's odd that some cars are having multiple failures while others are perfect. Why is my car ok? Am I tempting fate?
Several reasons and then fixes have been tried. The word is that the new rads are now ok......
Theories......
ecu with temperature sensor triggered solenoid valves instead of old school thermostats altered to reduce pressure and thermal shock.
Rad mount vibration reduced.....
Rad design and supplier changes....
Air locks in coolant.....a complex and critical process for coolant renewal that might go wrong.....
Rad cap pressure .....
I don't know if BMW cars with the same engines have rad failure problems to the same frequency as Morgans or even higher.

One of the ways of checking AI answers out is to ask the same basic question in a different way and see if the answers stack up.....but certainly Citizens Advice or a solicitor, is the best way to go.

I asked AI this question which support/and contradict the response above


These are results for do the consumer rights 6 year limit applied to the date the last repair of a latent fault

AI Overview

No, the 6-year consumer rights limit does not automatically reset or apply from the date of the last repair. Under the Limitation Act 1980 and the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the 6-year time limit to bring a legal claim for faulty goods runs from the original date of delivery/purchase.

Under the Limitation Act 1980 and the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the 6-year time limit to bring a legal claim for faulty goods runs from the original date of delivery/purchase

.However, how the law treats your timeline depends on whether the last repair introduced a new problem or failed to fix the original one.1. If the original latent fault was never fixed.If a retailer attempts a repair for an inherent latent fault and it fails, the 6-year clock does not restart from the repair date. It still counts from the original delivery date.

Your remedy:

If a repair fails, you do not have to keep accepting more repairs. Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, after just one failed repair, you have the right to move to the "second-tier" remedy. This means you can reject the goods for a final partial refund (factoring in use) or demand a price reduction. You must initiate this within 6 years of the original purchase date.

2. If the repair itself caused brand new damage. If the technician or retailer performed a repair and their workmanship directly caused a completely new, separate fault, a new limitation clock begins.The timeline: This is treated as a breach of a service contract (the repair contract) or negligence. In this specific scenario, you have a fresh 6 years from the date the faulty repair work was completed (or from when the new damage manifested) to take legal action.

Legislation.gov.uk


However, how the law treats your timeline depends on whether the last repair introduced a new problem or failed to fix the original one.
1. If the original latent fault was never fixed
If a retailer attempts a repair for an inherent latent fault and it fails, the 6-year clock does not restart from the repair date. It still counts from the original delivery date.

Practical Law

Your remedy: If a repair fails, you do not have to keep accepting more repairs. Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, after just one failed repair, you have the right to move to the "second-tier" remedy. This means you can reject the goods for a final partial refund (factoring in use) or demand a price reduction. You must initiate this within 6 years of the original purchase date.

LexisNexis

2. If the repair itself caused brand new damage
If the technician or retailer performed a repair and their workmanship directly caused a completely new, separate fault, a new limitation clock begins.
The timeline: This is treated as a breach of a service contract (the repair contract) or negligence. In this specific scenario, you have a fresh 6 years from the date the faulty repair work was completed (or from when the new damage manifested) to take legal action.




The Burden of Proof Shift

Keep in mind that because the item is past the first 6 months of ownership, the burden of proof is on you. To enforce your rights, you must be able to prove (often via an independent technician's report) that the fault is an inherent latent defect that existed at manufacture, or that the previous repair was definitively botched.




Always seek legal advice.............

I think morgan have tried their best so far regarding the rad issue and been quite fair. However there has been quite a large cost implication for most of us many trips to the factory which normally means a hotel or b and b and on one occaision 2 days in one trip. If youve had three four or even five rads it will be time for a serious talk when they try to charge. Cant see it myself but then again its Morgan .Bless their overpriced cotton socks

To be fair, the P6 has never let me down on a road trip or failed to start or required breakdown assistance. I only know the rad is leaking because the dealer tells me at the annual service.

Haven’t even lifted the bonnet this year since Ledgerwood fitted an under dash trickle charge connector at last years service ( I can hear Dave W chomping on his pipe!)

Compared to some of the ‘Mickey Mouse’ stuff that went on with the pre CX P4’s it’s been excellent - looks, ride, performance, fun factor.

Morgan build in mechanical challenges, not deliberately but by design. That's the essence of hand assembled. Every model has issues,but we all tolerate the issues because the benefits are greater. A friend who worships his Mx5, had the passenger window winder fail recently in Belgium. With the folding hard-hood, apparently you can't lower it when the side windows are stuck.

Anyway he was close to a Mazda dealer and they had one in stock, fitted it in a couple of hours and the cost was very reasonable. The next day, another Mx5 on the trip had the same window fail, but the dealer didn't have another drop mechanism so they had to drive on in the heat with the hood up.

So even Mx5's have weaknesses. Apparently the steel cable corrodes, and its common. Who knew?

Similar MMC response on radiator warranty to a member of LogMog who has a Plus Six. He mentioned that it either got done under warranty or he would involve a Barrister ... guess what happened ... he has a new radiator.

There may over time be an improving build quality control in place with greater empthais on the location and security of pipes and fixings,etc. as it would be one of the areas following the radiator failures I would have also focused on at Malvern., when searching for root and potential other sources for the failures. Have there been changes in the eg coolant system filling to avoid air locks.

And I do wonder in the early days of the radiator failures, as to how much the need to prevent air pockets in the coolant and any specialised procedures or equipment was available at the different dealerships when replacing the radiators under warranty.

I certainly noticed a big difference when the software update was applied to my car, done in the middle of December at Malvern, and I immediately noticed the warm up period for the heater to work dropped from 10 to about 5 minutes, indicating the water was being released more progressively and much earlier to reduce thermal shock. Very noticeable change in the draughty Morgan on cold days, much to the wife's and come to that my appreciation.



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100% agree.. the devil is always in the detail. An American company i worked for for many years had " get it right the first time" as its motto. I do believe the last few years of Morgan production is to a higher standard than the early years of CX production, I have worked on our car over years identifying and correcting the issues caused by poor assembly and in some areas design. I am no longer in a position to redesign critical areas in our car, just do not have the connections anymore.

I am sad how the MMC responded to our mail over a genuine need for a decent guarantee regarding the latest 5th radiator. The dialogue started well, but has gone completely quiet when we asked questions about replacement radiator warranty periods over 12 months. I will see how this pans out, but presently it feels like the MMC want to draw a line in the sand ref radiator warranty claims for cars older than two years.. I have lost confidence in MMC ref the radiator saga. For some reason it makes me sad and does not sit well with us.